Petition to rename Kit Carson

[susanjoypaul]

I just got the same acknowledgement from GNIS this afternoon.

Me too.

I sent my letter, and followed it up with a link to this thread. Currently we're at 93% *against* the name change, so although this is an informal (and mostly anonymous) poll, I hope they'll take the general attitude of the climbing community into consideration in their final decision.

Just a guess, but Tranquility might come from the moon or astronaut theme they have going... "Sea of Tranquility" on the Moon. Colombia and Challenger points nearby... Just a thought.

I think you give them too much credit. Based on the description in this thread, I doubt that the folks in favor of "Tranquility Peak" had anything to do with the naming of the adjacent peaks after the space shuttles. Maybe Keno or somebody will correct me, but it just doesn't sound like their style.

+1. It's not at all likely they have any interest in honoring the space program with this initiative.

OK, here's the straight dope about the two addresses:

Thanks for clearing that up for us, Fred.

Keep in mind that article was written with a bias.

+1 again. And if anyone believes that tripe about naming the summit "Tranquility Peak" to "reflect the town and valley," well I got a nice bridge to sell you... it's located in a little place I like to call Kit Carson City

[edhaman]

How much do you want for the bridge? Is it a bridge to nowhere? By any chance is it the famous Kit Carson City Bridge?

[kaiman]

If they are going to rename it, why not keep it on some sort of historical theme? My first thought would be to name it after Albert Ellingwood (after Albert Ellingwood who made the first ascent), but he seems to be pretty well represented (Ellingwood Point, Ellingwood Ridge, and Ellingwood Arete), so how about naming it after his little known climbing partner: Eleanor Davis, who was with him on the first summit of Kit Carson, and also apparently led on much of the first climbs of Crestone Needle and Crestone Peak they did together as well as many other climbs... Davis Peak has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?

Just my 2 pennies,

kaiman

[sgladbach]

If they are going to rename it, why not ...consider...naming it after his little known climbing partner: Eleanor Davis, who was with him on the first summit of Kit Carson, and also apparently led on much of the first climbs of Crestone Needle and Crestone Peak. kaiman

I think there is a law against naming a 14er after a woman. You know, their inferiortiy and all.......It wouldn't seem fitting to name something with such prowess after the dainty figure of the female.....Did you notice that before they could name Cronin after the first woman to climb the 14ers, they had to surround her by Blaurock and Ervin? That was obviously so that there was a man to take care of her. Duh!

[tmathews]

I think there is a law against naming a 14er after a woman. You know, their inferiortiy and all.......It wouldn't seem fitting to name something with such prowess after the dainty figure of the female.....Did you notice that before they could name Cronin after the first woman to climb the 14ers, they had to surround her by Blaurock and Ervin? That was obviously so that there was a man to take care of her. Duh!

[Presto]

Ahh, Mr. Gladbach ... classic.

[kaiman]

I think there is a law against naming a 14er after a woman. You know, their inferiortiy and all.......It wouldn't seem fitting to name something with such prowess after the dainty figure of the female.....Did you notice that before they could name Cronin after the first woman to climb the 14ers, they had to surround her by Blaurock and Ervin? That was obviously so that there was a man to take care of her. Duh!

Good point, I guess they'll just have to rename a few other peaks in the area with male names and then rename Kit Carson...

[susanjoypaul]

Did you notice that before they could name Cronin after the first woman to climb the 14ers, they had to surround her by Blaurock and Ervin? That was obviously so that there was a man to take care of her. Duh!

Huh... all this time I thought they were just standing there staring at her buttress.

[sgladbach]

Did you notice that before they could name Cronin after the first woman to climb the 14ers, they had to surround her by Blaurock and Ervin? That was obviously so that there was a man to take care of her. Duh!

Huh... all this time I thought they were just standing there staring at her buttress.

Well, that too!

[susanjoypaul]

Okay silly people...

The BGN people said, of the poll:

Thank you for the information about the informal poll. As it happens even formal, regulated polls are not given much consideration by the members of the Board (they say) primarily because we do not have the resources to verify the information. On the other hand, polls, even ones such as this one are examined generally for the overall message they provide.

So they're at least considering the "overall message" of the poll, which, with 93% of the 230 votes currently logged, bodes well for us! At least the majority of us - those who don't want to change the name of the peak.

I hope they're considering the "overall message" of just the poll, and not the "overall message" of all the posts... or we could end up with proposals for a "Kit Carson City," new names for all the Baldies, Grizzlies, and Sheep out there, and perhaps a sexual harassment suit against a couple of wayward Chaffee county peaks

So if you have an opinion and you haven't voted, it's not too late. Vote. Or send an email. Or both. Thanks!

[susanjoypaul]

Thanks to everyone who voted, or took the time to send an email to the Board on Geographic Names. We're still "holding strong" at 93% *against* the name change, with 237 votes!

In the interest of learning more about Kit Carson, the man, I'm going to pick up "Blood and Thunder," but in the meantime I found an interesting interview out on the Colorado Public Radio website, with Stephen Ives, director of the 2008 PBS documentary "Kit Carson." The interview is here: http://www.cpr.org/#load_article|legacy-archive-3678

It sounds like Ives takes an even-handed approach in his assessment of Carson's dichotomic "legend as hero and villain." From that interview:

• I think the key to Kit Carson is to not shy away from the fact that he is often contradictory and sometimes even a morally ambiguous character and you just can't have it any other way. That's who the man is. I'm fascinated by characters that have a mixture of strength and weakness, who are filled with complexity. I think that's much more interesting than the cardboard-cutout myth of some figure that's really just an image that does more to satisfy our own needs sometimes as Americans or as audiences, for simple stories with simple or comfortable solutions or answers, and I think that the fascination for Carson is that his story is more challenging and sometimes more troubling and a little bit more unsettling than we might wish. But I think that's a healthy and important kind of dialogue to have with our own history.

The ninety-minute documentary is available for viewing here, in its entirety, in 9 short chapters:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carson/program/

Other than "Charlie Brown Christmas," tonight looks like a real crap night for TV... so I think I'm going to watch this instead!

[Doug Shaw]

I think the key to Kit Carson is to not shy away from the fact that he is often contradictory and sometimes even a morally ambiguous character and you just can't have it any other way. That's who the man is. I'm fascinated by characters that have a mixture of strength and weakness, who are filled with complexity.

So to summarize, Kit Carson was a human being.