Are there any "easier", shorter class 4 hikes to try?

[TallGrass]

In terms of footwear, I definitely wouldn't do any scrambling in my boots if I can help it. I want good range of motion in my feet when I'm scrambling, so it's either low top hiking shoes or approach shoes for me. Climbing shoes would most likely be overkill. On dirty and loose routes, climbing shoes are actually more slippery due to the lack of tread on the soles. The exception would be the flatirons, the rock is slabby and really solid, were the friction from climbing shoes make a difference.

It's like there's a myth that climbing shoes have exclusive use of grippy rubber soles. They don't. There's an inverse relationship between grip and longevity, just like car tires. Rubber is just for friction, but for more of a lock or mechanical grip, you need tread. Chuck Taylor All Stars (the ubiquitous Converse that's out sold Air Jordans in terms of player-sponsored shoes) have GREAT rubber grip, but so-so tread, and essentially zero rigidity, which is fine for a shoe meant to grip lacquered wood basketball floors. Conversely, crampons have no friction grip, but a ton of mechanical if they can get purchase; if not (stepping on a slope of thick sheet metal) you'll slide right off. Either way, it really comes down to getting the most out of what you have.

Wore these jump boots up N. Maroon and Pyramid with no problems. If you get the right type, you find (new) they have good grabby tread with a solid heel notch (great for hooking the edge or flake of rock), soft grippy rubber, flexible forefoot to conform, but stiff enough heel and mid-sole to stand on the knife edge of rock without folding. Breath well, dry quick, speed laces, and easy to tuck pants into to forego gaiters in many instances.

[highpilgrim]

Wore these jump boots up N. Maroon and Pyramid with no problems.

Those are not jump boots. They are worn jungle boots. Just sayin.

[12ersRule]

Wore these jump boots up N. Maroon and Pyramid with no problems.

Those are not jump boots. They are worn jungle boots. Just sayin.

My dogs are barking just looking at those things.

[TallGrass]

@ 12ersRule, your dogs must be Palmaranians or Teacup Chihuahuas! Who was it that posted about how footwear ensures a market of soft feet to sell to?

@ highpilgrim, yep, jungles but done jumps too (below). Steel toe and stiff, but harder rubber that didn't grip worth snot on Capitol's knife edge. Still like jungles best. Have another pair that started out black whose leather looked more like brown suede after all the scree and rock they went through; a little black kiwi dye and ready for town!

[BillMiddlebrook]

Wore these jump boots up N. Maroon and Pyramid with no problems.

Those are not jump boots. They are worn jungle boots. Just sayin.

My dogs are barking just looking at those things.

No kidding. Yikes

[TallGrass]

My dogs are barking just looking at those things.

No kidding. Yikes

May lack glitter and tassels that some appearance-minded folk look for, but they're comfy, work, and have served countless "dogs" in the armed forces for decades for a reason.

[highpilgrim]

yep, jungles but done jumps too (below).

Those are not jump boots either. These are jump boots V

jump boots.jpg

They are usually associated with these V

jump wings.jpg

[polar]

Do you own stock in this company or something?

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[Lardtazium]

What you WON'T get on a flatiron slab climb is technical experience - slab'ing is going to be a different skill than what you need for say, the Maroon Bells Traverse. What you need to understand there is how to deal with rotten rock, that can (and will move on you). The lessons of testing rocks, pushing on, rather than pulling out holds, not being in the line of fire, etc can be learned as conceptual ideas BEFORE you go out and you can practice them whenever you're on a Class 3/4 route. You can do this all on The Sawtooth, or the Keyhole route if you wanted to, no matter how silly it seems.

I've never heard this concept of pushing rather than pulling on holds. How can you do anything but pull a hold if it's overhead?

[justiner]

So, here's the concept: you're going up a 4th Class route, and there's a ton of hand holds. The rock, like many 14ers, is suspect. So, using them like you would on, say, a fairly solid cliff, at a climbing crag (where loose rocks are usually removed, in time) may not be a good idea. Three points of contact at all times is a good idea - I'm not sure if I'd have two of them be my hands, the majority of the time.

You'd first want to test the hold - see if it moves merely by putting some force on it, like your hand and tapping on it - seeing if it's solid or sounds hollow (hollow: not good). Only then, you wanna utilize it as a hold. But even then, I wouldn't necessarily use it as I would with something like a 5.9 climb, where may arms are out straight, and my weight could be dangling from my arms. The suspect rock still might break, I could lose my balance - and a tumbling I will go.

Another way of thinking about "pulling", is pulling a book out of a bookcase. You can push down on the rock and if you have the choice, that's what I'd do. In the book/bookcase analogy, pushing down on the top of a book isn't going to necessarily have it fly off the shelf, like pulling it out of the shelf.

Instead, realize, if it's a 4th Class route. Luckily that means you don't have do all that many techniques where you're pulling up your weight with your hands, but only using the hand holds to - you know: hold. Just like 5th (or below 4th, really) Class climbing, you want to do the majority of the work with your feet, and the lower the grade/less steep the route, the easier this is to do. I'm thinking of a lot of the 4th class routes on 14ers - places like Pyramid, Capitol, the Maroon Bells - all suspect rock, not good for climbing on, like you would at say, Boulder Canyon, where the rock is pretty solid granite, that's been cleaned quite a bit. A place like Crestone Needle, with its conglomerate is much different, where the cemented in "pebbles" really do feel like climbing-gym-like handholds. They also do pull out on occasion, but it's not like the brittle, decomposed choss of these other mountains.

That's sorta what I wanna get across. Easier to show, then to write it seems. Pushing also isn't all the uncommon in technical climbing. Things like underclings, gastons, stemming, manteling all deal with pushing. I would say, using pockets, sidepulls, and especially slopers aren't things that I would immediately employ on a chossy, 4th class route.

Also, realize that most 4th Class Routes on 14ers are still mostly hiking with a lot of route-finding to find the safest, easiest way over the terrain. It's not so much "super easy rock climbing". When I feel I'm rock climbing a 4th Class Route, I'm usually, um, off route

[TallGrass]

What you need to understand there is how to deal with rotten rock, that can (and will move on you). The lessons of testing rocks, pushing on, rather than pulling out holds,

I've never heard this concept of pushing rather than pulling on holds. How can you do anything but pull a hold if it's overhead?

Pretend you're eight inches tall and trying to climb these. What happens if you push or pull sideways with hands or feet on something only "held" together by gravity? The only "stable" direction is straight down, unless it's in a dirt pocket (or is fractured and you weight it outside the fulcrum) that can't support your added weight, even partially...

[Lardtazium]

Another way of thinking about "pulling", is pulling a book out of a bookcase. You can push down on the rock and if you have the choice, that's what I'd do. In the book/bookcase analogy, pushing down on the top of a book isn't going to necessarily have it fly off the shelf, like pulling it out of the shelf.

That book analogy is great. Makes sense. Thanks!