Kedrowski: 2016 Ski Project Controversy

[mojah]

Haha, I went on a totally different track there. Perhaps I should have read your post more closely . My last reply was based on the assumption he did indeed summit and make it back in that time. #benefitofthedoubt

Jomah,
Bottom line is that he had no more than 50 minutes to go from ~13,230' on the ridge (below the technical terrain), climb to the summit, transition, take some pictures , ski some, transition, downclimb through some cliffs, ski some and be back at 13,264'. That's what we're down to.

Doable?

But yeah, in my experience, it's unlikely. His speed going uphill is impressive for sure and if he was able to make the summit at the same pace, transitions will still eat time. A 75 foot downclimb (with skis and in ski boots, no less) adds even more time. If he was able to take pictures and transition into skis on the summit in 10 minutes; transition out, downclimb, and transition back in 15 minutes, that leaves 25 minutes to summit AND ski. Lets say it takes 5 minutes to ski down to ~13,200'. That leaves 20 minutes to gain the summit. A pace of ~400' every 10 minutes. If you shave off some transition/downclimb time and give him another 10 minutes, that's ~267' every 10 minutes. Closer to his previous pace (~200'/10min for most of his track points), but as you said, those are the more technical sections of the ridge and would likely take more time.

If he were somehow able to transition instantly, teleport down cliffs bands, and charge down in literally zero time, that's ~800' in 50 minutes. A pace of ~160'/10min.

Additionally, his photos on Pyramid lack EXIF data.
http://regex.info/exif.cgi?dummy=on&img ... 00x185.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://regex.info/exif.cgi?dummy=on&img ... 00x218.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lodgling]

So can we just assume he did it but he's clearly doping?

[Carl]

Jomah,
Bottom line is that he had no more than 50 minutes to go from ~13,230' on the ridge (below the technical terrain), climb to the summit, transition, take some pictures , ski some, transition, downclimb through some cliffs, ski some and be back at 13,264'. That's what we're down to.

Doable?

It took us 2 hours exactly to summit Pyramid from that spot when we skied it. Granted we're weekend warriors, but we're not exactly slow. For perspective, Pyramid in summer conditions from the car to the summit the following year took me 2 hours 22 minutes. As you would expect that terrain on Pyramid in snow conditions with skis on the back is slow going for most. So no, I don't think it's plausible that Jon would have climbed from that point to the summit and skied back there in 50 minutes when it took us 3 times that. But that doesn't mean he didn't ski Pyramid. Perhaps there is some simple explanation for the GPS points and Jon will clear this up with pictures of his Capitol and Pyramid summit descents. It certainly seems like he was on the summit so I can't imagine he didn't ski them. A little odd he hasn't posted pics though. His comments on his website discussing where he may have come a little short were refreshing.

[jmc5040]

Jomah,
Bottom line is that he had no more than 50 minutes to go from ~13,230' on the ridge (below the technical terrain), climb to the summit, transition, take some pictures , ski some, transition, downclimb through some cliffs, ski some and be back at 13,264'. That's what we're down to.

Doable?

It took us 2 hours exactly to summit Pyramid from that spot when we skied it. Granted we're weekend warriors, but we're not exactly slow. For perspective, Pyramid in summer conditions from the car to the summit the following year took me 2 hours 22 minutes. As you would expect that terrain on Pyramid in snow conditions with skis on the back is slow going for most. So no, I don't think it's plausible that Jon would have climbed from that point to the summit and skied back there in 50 minutes when it took us 3 times that. But that doesn't mean he didn't ski Pyramid. Perhaps there is some simple explanation for the GPS points and Jon will clear this up with pictures of his Capitol and Pyramid summit descents. It certainly seems like he was on the summit so I can't imagine he didn't ski them. A little odd he hasn't posted pics though. His comments on his website discussing where he may have come a little short were refreshing.

I just skied with Carl and he smoked my ass going up... and I thought I was not excatly slow. As pointed out Jon's clearly seen this thread or at least heard of it so we'll know soon enough once he gets those photos posted.

[eyost11]

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/16/va ... urteeners/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TallGrass]

From http://www.14ers.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 28#p605137 with spreadsheet

There's a 50 minute gap where the Spot was turned off (or not transmitting) around 13,200' and Jon would have had to get to the summit, transition and ski back to that point in those 50 minutes. It's also a bit weird that several of the 10-minute Spot tracking points in that 13,200-foot area were all fairly close together, in the area right before the route gets much more technical. For those of you who have done Pyramid in summer, these points are mostly in the area where you would leave the ridge to traverse to the "leap of faith" and cliff traverse. Jon mentioned that he had to downclimb a dry section after skiing from the summit so this transition and downclimb would have sucked up even more time. Additionally, a cursory look shows that Jon was moving at about 200-300 vertical each 10 minutes before reaching that more-difficult terrain at ~13,200'. He would likely have had to keep or exceed that pace and make very fast transitions and quickly ski back to ~13,200' to get the ski in that window. If you're interested, take a look and post your thoughts.

Took a look at what the average ascent and descent would be to get an idea of where he maxes out for each, then used them for an "ideal" to see what it'd take for Kedrowski to get up and down from the 14,018' summit. I say "ideal" because these are the easiest rates since spending time switching gear or taking photos would eat time and thus increase them.

int h:mm:ss elev ft
06 4:27:01 10911 Δ ft/min
07 4:36:39 11088 18.4
08 4:46:39 11292 20.4
09 4:56:41 11639 34.6
10 5:06:38 11826 18.8
11 5:16:37 11969 14.3
12 5:26:36 11969 0.0
13 5:36:36 12159 19.0
14 5:46:36 12362 20.3
15 5:56:56 12553 18.5
16 6:06:35 12778 23.3
17 6:16:31 12977 20.0
18 6:26:37 13064 8.6
19 6:36:54 13230 16.1
20 7:12:42 13310 2.2
21 7:26:43 13264 -3.3
22 7:36:43 13281 1.7
23 7:46:40 13203 -7.8
24 7:56:57 13086 -11.4
25 8:01:06 13082 -1.0
26 8:17:22 12927 -9.5
27 8:27:22 11983 -94.4
28 8:37:37 11110 -85.2
29 8:47:18 10589 -53.8
30 8:57:18 10220 -36.9
31 9:07:38 10220 0.0
32 9:17:16 10215 -0.5
33 9:27:19 10080 -13.4
34 9:37:15 09830 -25.2

int h:mm:ss elev ft
19 6:36:54 13230 16.1
21 7:26:43 13264 -3.3
If all 50min spent ascending from int19 to 14,018' summit (788'), 15.8ft/min
If all 50min spent descending from 14,018' summit to int21 (-754'), -25.2ft/min
But, both must be done in 50min, reducing the time for each increases the rate (ft/min).

Max decent rate was -94.4 ft/min, which would take 8min to drop 754'.
That leaves 42min to gain 788', a rate of 18.8 ft/min.

I've only climbed Pyramid once, in the month of September. Hard to tell what route he took from those screenshots, but if along the standard route where there's a lot of horizontal traversing and tech-ish vertical, I don't see a nice rest break on the ridge not a summit.

[lodgling]

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/16/va ... urteeners/

I'm picturing an intervention at White Castle pizza in Carbondale with Lou, Ted and Chris. In any event, I see the change of heart as a "mea culpa lite."

[SnowAlien]

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/16/va ... urteeners/

I'm picturing an intervention at White Castle pizza in Carbondale with Lou, Ted and Chris. In any event, I see the change of heart as a "mea culpa lite."

I get a sense too that at least Ted Mahon intervened, sat JK down and finally explained the 14er ski rules. The fallout of not following the ski guidelines was clear. And somebody has been reading the forum

[TallGrass]

Prior end comment should be "I see a nice rest break on the ridge, not a summit."

A little more Pyramid data sifting...
At his max descent rate of -94.4ft/min, it would take Kedrowski
7.5min to drop 708' from the 14,018 summit to 13,310 (int20).
That leaves 28.3min to ascend 788' from 13,230 (int19) to the 14,018 summit
which is an ascent rate of 27.8ft/min.
Granted his max ascent rate was 34.6ft/min,
but that was from 11,292-11,639ft in ideal terrain which the summit push is not.

TLDR: Kedrowski's own SPOT data indicates he did not have both the time and ability to reach Pyramid's summit the morning of June 1, 2016 given the terrain and altitude so his #14erskirecord clock is at 380 days and still ticking... #KedrowskiDidNotFinish

[wildlobo71]

That last quote of the sympathetic post article just irritates me. It's not hate, you should get to know a person to afford hating them. It's about respect, not hate. I respect that he's way more of a mountaineer than I ever dream of being, and I respect his achievements. I don't respect the deception, the narcissism, and the self-aggrandizing.

There is a distinct difference and I hope that he and his followers and supporters get that.

[semitrueskerm]

......There's a 50 minute gap where the Spot was turned off (or not transmitting) around 13,200' and Jon would have had to get to the summit, transition and ski back to that point in those 50 minutes....

I think we can chalk this up to Nixon’s loyal secretary, Rose Mary Woods, who has admitted to mistakenly erasing the 50-minute gap in the Spot recording device.

Case closed.

[mountaingoat-G]

This is a good use of the forums, IMO. It can help hold a person who makes an amazing claim's feet to the fire.

This is similar to the LA saga (sorry to keep beating that drum, but ....)

I can see the "shield of ambiguity" clearly now after reading his stuff. No where near as bad as LA's "cancer shield" though, that's for sure.....