FAQ and threads for those just starting to hike the Colorado 14ers.
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Monster5 wrote:As most of the posts above allude to, the entire "down vs synthetic" debate is pretty much obsolete with the advent of hydrophobic down, better waterproofing finishes, and advanced synthetic materials.
Obsolete? Down is still expensive, less breathable, and generally more prone to injury. Although a great gift from nature.
Both are mostly upside.
For the OP, I put most of my eggs in the synthetic jacket because of how often it gets used. These products have made some great leaps with breath-ability/warmth in the past few years. I have a hooded zip-up and it really helps you adjust temperature on the go. Pair it with a rain jacket or wind shell and they lock in the heat.
Down has been around for a heck of a lot longer and is easier to find used, save $100 and go to a gear swap or just watch some sales. Since the down gets packed away and only used in mostly stationary situations, it doesn't have to be the perfect garment.
I'm just bringing this up out of curiosity. In my mind down is typically the more fragile when it comes to clothing and sleeping bags. I'm not saying it isn't the more durable, but do you think that down garments tend to last longer because people may treat them more like a breakable and tend to baby them?
Down keeps its loft longer without going flat, thus it will last longer if you take care of it. In that aspect, it is more durable. A down coat or jacket though isn't as durable as far as taking abrasion or sharp goes. A brush with a crampon or sharp protruding stone can send feathers all over the place. While a rip in a synthetic jacket or coat won't be catastrophic, a rip in a down jacket or coat can be.
Still, I prefer down for most climbs and for sitting around camp. On technical rock during cold weather, I'd rather take a synthetic if I feel that there might be a chance of tearing it. I also wouldn't ice climb with down pants, regardless if I had gaiters on. I know I'd rip them for sure.
I'm old, slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
Or maybe you're just speaking to the longevity of the thermal properties? Not the garment itself?
This - I'm only speaking to the durability of the material to be compressed/uncompressed without losing its lofting properties. IMO polyester fiber insulation is still quite a long way from down in this department.
I've given away every synthetic jacket I've ever owned. I really only use down now and have used and abusing my current jacket for 2 years. It has gone on every skiing trip, alpine trip, ice climbing and just wore it up castelton tower without a tear. Pretty impressive to me.
I am pretty tempted to try the nano-air hoodies though...
I own one lightweight down jacket, a heavyweight down jacket (w.hood), and a lightweight synthetic jacket.
For most of the summer and fringe months, I will use the light down jacket but it only really gets taken out of my pack for the summit or around camp, when I am not moving. Since it spends most of its time packed away, I opt to save the space and weight since the down jacket is slightly less heavy and significantly less bulky than the synthetic.
In the winter, I bring my synthetic jacket and usually wear it, so I am not as concerned about how pack able it is. Its great to only need a softshell, light synthetic jacket, and a rain shell in pretty much any temperature we experience in CO (at least while I am being active). Maybe I'm just crazy, but I feel like the synthetic option is slightly warmer and is much more resistant to any sweating I may do, so I always opt for that when I know I've got a long winter day where I need to keep that layer on for more than 8 hours.
gspup wrote:
I am pretty tempted to try the nano-air hoodies though...
Best "puffy" I own. Arc'Teryx also makes a comparable version. 9 times out of ten when I'm out BC skiing, in bounds skiing, hiking 14ers, I reach for the Nano Air over my down puffy, because of how well it breathes. It does not compress as well as down (not even close) but is so much more versatile and breathable. Only when it gets nasty (super windy, cold, especially in shoulder season hiking) do I reach for the down puffy, usually in addition to the Nano Air Hoody underneath my shell jacket.
I've dialed down to a fairly lightweight, packable and versatile system. Frankly, couldn't care less about down vs synthetic as the associated risks can generally be managed and difference in breathability for any shell material is pretty much negligible to me.
Fall, Spring or winter alpine hikes:
-Mountain Hardwear Ghost Whisperer down hoody
Winter alpine technical climbs or overnighters:
-Add Patagonia Nanopuff synthetic vest to the above, generally worn beneath a soft or hard shell
Other:
-Golite 800 or 850 fill hydrophobic down hoody (in combo with above for higher/colder places)
-Heavy wool hoody (winter rock or ice cragging)
"The road to alpine climbing is pocked and poorly marked, ending at an unexpectedly closed gate 5 miles from the trailhead." - MP user Beckerich
I'm a bit confused by multiple claims that synthetic insulation is more breathable than down. I don't believe that this is true. Perhaps the specific synthetic *garments* are more breathable... but that would be due to the shell material/coatings, I'd think.
I believe down is more breathable than polyester insulations simply looking at the material itself.
I only use down winter or summer; midweight Base layer, midweight down (700 fill eddie bauer hooded, or 800 fill storm down hooded on colder days), Gortex shell (OR Maximus), and a breathable down parka (Montbell Frost Line) for really cold days. Packability and weight are key for me. I've been terrible conditions and been completely comfortable with that layering system. Usually don't have to add or shed a layer the whole day as I start out with my 700 fill eddie bauer jacket on, and that gets me through temps from 40 to -15 or so.
