What's the best type of training?

[weakenedwarrior]

Other than fake it until you make it.
You can't climb peaks every day so how do you guys train for the mountains?

This conversation always takes the same turn. good, better, best.

good - something is better than nothing. These people tend to be crossfitters.

better - more specified, weekend warriors in the high country, a quick jog/hike a couple times during the week before/after work. Probably the sweet spot if you're just looking to hike 14ers/cents/bicents.

best - TFTNA. controversial, for sure. but, highly specific training for specific objectives. cardio will be lots of long duration, low effort.

Just curious, what is controversial about TFTNA?

[ker0uac]

Other than fake it until you make it.
You can't climb peaks every day so how do you guys train for the mountains?

I don't think you are making good use of all the information it's being given to you over the last several months. I am choosing to believe you are not a troll, so maybe tell us what you are struggling with?

[rijaca]

Other than fake it until you make it.
You can't climb peaks every day so how do you guys train for the mountains?

I'm fat so no I don't climb very often. I like to learn about mountains though.

I'll be blunt. This isn't rocket science. Get off your fat a$$ and go for a walk every day. Walk some hills and increase your pace as you can.

[mnsebourn]

I run twenty to thirty miles a week even when I'm not training for a marathon. My running routes offer plenty of hills.

And while my home in Arkansas doesn't have any real "mountains" (depending on your definition, I guess), our terrain is pretty rugged. Pinnacle Mountain outside of Little Rock offers about 800' of very steep elevation gain, and one of the main routes to the top offers some decent class 2-3 boulder hopping/scrambling. I've been to known to hike/jog up and down that "mountain" in the weeks leading up to my excursions in the Rockies.

As has almost certainly been said plenty of times, the key is to simply MOVE. Walk, run, bike, hike, climb... Get the heart pumping and give your muscles a workout. It's indeed not rocket science.

[justiner]

Just curious, what is controversial about TFTNA?

Literally nothing. It's just that it's written for climbers, who don't know how to train for long distance objectives and endurance coaches don't know what to do with an athlete that wants to keep all that upper body strength. Go read the mountain project forums on any topic similar to, "Should I do a jog/run and will it affect my climbing?" and wait for the junk show.

All the book says is: work on an aerobic base months out from your objective, and add more intensity when you want to peak, then gives some training plans on how to do so. It's not all that far from very tradition Lydiard or 80/20 training.

You won't need TFTNA for 14ers anyways. No peak requires you to be able to climb 5.12 and run a 9:30/mile @ 14,000. I would put the tome of the book in my pack for some weighted carries though. Works great for that.

[ker0uac]

Books and coaches will make it unnecessarily complex to sell their services and knowledge. I'll only add three points:

1. The best type of training is doing (it assumes you have the common sense to not put yourself in life threatening situations) - When I first started 15yrs ago, I was overweight, smoker and unhealthy overall, and hiked solo to the top of Yosemite Fall with overnight supplies plus bear can. It took me 7hrs, instead of the average 2-3hrs.

2. Core and anaerobic - These two will turbocharge you. I am not saying nothing else is important or should be ignored. But these two will put you in a whole different league. If you are slow or struggle with heavy loads, you lack anaerobic capacity or core strength.

3. Mental training is just as important - I don't know how to explain this one. Maybe you either have it or you don't. Can one learn mental resilience and endurance? Regardless of your training, you will often hit a mental wall. You might be cold. You might still be a little high from previous night's edibles. You might be irritated coz gas station in Leadville ran out of toilette paper. Can you still push through?

[weakenedwarrior]

Just curious, what is controversial about TFTNA?

Literally nothing. It's just that it's written for climbers, who don't know how to train for long distance objectives and endurance coaches don't know what to do with an athlete that wants to keep all that upper body strength. Go read the mountain project forums on any topic similar to, "Should I do a jog/run and will it affect my climbing?" and wait for the junk show.

All the book says is: work on an aerobic base months out from your objective, and add more intensity when you want to peak, then gives some training plans on how to do so. It's not all that far from very tradition Lydiard or 80/20 training.

You won't need TFTNA for 14ers anyways. No peak requires you to be able to climb 5.12 and run a 9:30/mile @ 14,000. I would put the tome of the book in my pack for some weighted carries though. Works great for that.

Yes, I'm very familiar with TFTNA and the endurance training they recommend is pretty much what you'd find in any sensible marathon training plan. The strength training part I've found very helpful for trail running, especially the muscular endurance part. Which is why I was curious to know what was controversial about that when really there's nothing ground breaking about the book, mostly it's tried and true methods exposed to an audience not used to a structured training regimen. Thanks for your reply.

[cottonmountaineering]

something north of 2/3 of americans are overweight or obese, so the biggest gains will be made by eating less

after that, there is a balance to strike between how much you train and the length of time to your trip/event

for me i can only train for about 6 months before burning out, bear peak or similar after work once a week and both weekend days ~8 hours exercise backcountry skiing or peak bagging

[JtheChemE]

[...] the biggest gains will be made by eating less

after that, there is a balance to strike between how much you train and the length of time to your trip/event

This is good advice, getting lighter makes you significantly faster. Seems obvious? Maybe not! I have known people who pay an extra $100s to shave grams on a piece of bike kit, when they could have shaved multiple lbs by cutting out some beer...

If you want to go faster uphill.... train uphill. Stair machine, local training hill, etc. I'm a big proponent of "keep it simple" for people newer to training. No need to set yourself up for failure with some ridiculously hard to maintain regimen at the beginning when newbie gains will be strong. Get outside, go uphill, repeat.

[hellmanm]

3. Mental training is just as important - I don't know how to explain this one. Maybe you either have it or you don't. Can one learn mental resilience and endurance? Regardless of your training, you will often hit a mental wall. You might be cold. You might still be a little high from previous night's edibles. You might be irritated coz gas station in Leadville ran out of toilette paper. Can you still push through?

This one is huge. I had exercised my whole life when I started 14ers/13ers, but it's hard to prepare for going all day. It's easy enough to be fatigued after a night of poor sleep and 3000'+ of elevation, but having to be "on" for hours is not something you'll experience through regular workouts. Even if they're easy, try going on walks for 8-9 hours. They don't have to be grueling, but you'll get a better sense of how to handle the mental fatigue. Keep your pack on for those btw, and fill it as if you're going up a peak.

[ker0uac]

Just curious, what is controversial about TFTNA?

Literally nothing. It's just that it's written for climbers, who don't know how to train for long distance objectives and endurance coaches don't know what to do with an athlete that wants to keep all that upper body strength. Go read the mountain project forums on any topic similar to, "Should I do a jog/run and will it affect my climbing?" and wait for the junk show.

All the book says is: work on an aerobic base months out from your objective, and add more intensity when you want to peak, then gives some training plans on how to do so. It's not all that far from very tradition Lydiard or 80/20 training.

You won't need TFTNA for 14ers anyways. No peak requires you to be able to climb 5.12 and run a 9:30/mile @ 14,000. I would put the tome of the book in my pack for some weighted carries though. Works great for that.

Yes, I'm very familiar with TFTNA and the endurance training they recommend is pretty much what you'd find in any sensible marathon training plan. The strength training part I've found very helpful for trail running, especially the muscular endurance part. Which is why I was curious to know what was controversial about that when really there's nothing ground breaking about the book, mostly it's tried and true methods exposed to an audience not used to a structured training regimen. Thanks for your reply.

I don't know if I would have used the word controversial. Maybe it's controversial in the sense that, as you said, it seems more like a marathon training plan. But any training regime attempts to play with effort and duration, whether it is cardio or muscle. This book swears by low effort, high duration training. I find that very deficient.

[cottonmountaineering]

Literally nothing. It's just that it's written for climbers, who don't know how to train for long distance objectives and endurance coaches don't know what to do with an athlete that wants to keep all that upper body strength. Go read the mountain project forums on any topic similar to, "Should I do a jog/run and will it affect my climbing?" and wait for the junk show.

All the book says is: work on an aerobic base months out from your objective, and add more intensity when you want to peak, then gives some training plans on how to do so. It's not all that far from very tradition Lydiard or 80/20 training.

You won't need TFTNA for 14ers anyways. No peak requires you to be able to climb 5.12 and run a 9:30/mile @ 14,000. I would put the tome of the book in my pack for some weighted carries though. Works great for that.

Yes, I'm very familiar with TFTNA and the endurance training they recommend is pretty much what you'd find in any sensible marathon training plan. The strength training part I've found very helpful for trail running, especially the muscular endurance part. Which is why I was curious to know what was controversial about that when really there's nothing ground breaking about the book, mostly it's tried and true methods exposed to an audience not used to a structured training regimen. Thanks for your reply.

I don't know if I would have used the word controversial. Maybe it's controversial in the sense that, as you said, it seems more like a marathon training plan. But any training regime attempts to play with effort and duration, whether it is cardio or muscle. This book swears by low effort, high duration training. I find that very deficient.

ive since loaned the book out but i dont recall anything mentioned as "low effort" - rather not doing a ton of anaerobic exercise

Zone 1: Basic Endurance (55–75 percent of max HR)