Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
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bigredmachine wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:24 pm
Dumb question, but why is the CAIC able to put out fairly detailed info on avalanche related accidents but there is nothing like that related to hiking. Obviously, there is more “evidence” with an avalanche, but I’d think they could release more detailed info that could help educate the public. For example, this news report says near the knife edge, but we all know this could mean anywhere from a couple hundred yards before or after the knife edge.
I believe the CAIC receives State and USFS funding which covers a chunk of its expenses. Most SAR teams don’t have those funding sources. So it’s possible that CAIC can afford to do it, and/or may be required to do it by the funding agreements.
My condolences and deepest sympathy to his family and friends. My daughters are 36 and 32 years old. It would devastate me to lose one of them. It's a damned shame.
"Education is the process of moving from cocksure ignorance to thoughtful uncertainty." (Utvich)
Ptglhs wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:16 pm
We have no idea what happened. If he was found below the knife's edge he was probably on the standard route. It could have been something as simple as a rock that hundreds of other people have stepped on giving way to the forces of gravity and erosion. When people act like person X died because they made mistake A, B, or C and they themselves would never make those same mistakes they are deluding themselves into believing they are less vulnerable then they are. Sometimes people make good decisions and have bad luck. We don't, and probably never will, know what happened to this hiker. My condolences to those who loved him.
Ptglhs wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:16 pm
We have no idea what happened. If he was found below the knife's edge he was probably on the standard route. It could have been something as simple as a rock that hundreds of other people have stepped on giving way to the forces of gravity and erosion. When people act like person X died because they made mistake A, B, or C and they themselves would never make those same mistakes they are deluding themselves into believing they are less vulnerable then they are. Sometimes people make good decisions and have bad luck. We don't, and probably never will, know what happened to this hiker. My condolences to those who loved him.
Very well put.
Yup.
The only way you would really know is if people saw him going that way or he talked to someone inquiring about another way down. According to the preliminary report, he was found 500 ft below the knife edge. That is one hell of a fall and certainly plausible. Or he went that way. If you didn't do a lot of research, then you could easily think that descending straight down to the lake "goes." I've learned the hard way that if there was an easier way down (with some 5th class downclwimbs that could have gone bad real quick for me), then that would be "the way" to begin with. We'll prob never know. sucks.
A lot of folks on this site have lost friends on the peaks, and other places too. I hope I never get to a place where it stops hurting, or think for a minute that it's just another accident, another injury, another death.
Kelly looks like a million other guys I've passed on the trail, but I'm sure to his friends and family, he's one of a kind. He sure looks like a very happy guy, the kind of guy who'd be great company on a peak or anywhere else. I can't imagine what his family must be going through. A heartbreaking outcome.
painless4u2 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:56 pm
That was my point. Technology is great, but it has to be on or accessible. If you suddenly slip and fall, incapacitating yourself, you can't reach for it to activate it. It may be a good backup if used properly, but not always reliable.
I usually hike alone and I carry my InReach, powered on. My spouse can go to the website and "ping" my device to locate it. I also send messages periodically so she can tell rescuers where I was and when.
I expect it will almost never fail to work as designed.
It is designed to send and receive satellite signals. If the device is in a cave, or under very heavy tree cover, or in a ravine without line-of-sight to 2 or more satellites, it will not be located. It could be in ravine because that's where I fell, or where the device fell.
If you were to randomly give half of all hikers an InReach device and the other half nothing I expect the rate of disappearance of the InReach hikers would be lower than the other half. But not zero. Whether that increased protection is worth the money is an individual decision. I can say that my wife sleeps much better during my ~48 hour absence by getting those periodic messages from me.
susanjoypaul wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:14 pm
A lot of folks on this site have lost friends on the peaks, and other places too. I hope I never get to a place where it stops hurting, or think for a minute that it's just another accident, another injury, another death.
My condolences forbthis terrible tragedy.
To put numbers in perspective:
In 2020 seven 14er fatalities for 415,000 summits (CFI). Thats 1 in 60,000.
USA covid deaths were 1 per 500. More than a hundred times worse.
I knew 2 friend of friends who perished on 14ers over several decades.
I personally knew 5 who died of covid.
One of these I feel much safer- climbing 14ers.
painless4u2 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:56 pm
That was my point. Technology is great, but it has to be on or accessible. If you suddenly slip and fall, incapacitating yourself, you can't reach for it to activate it. It may be a good backup if used properly, but not always reliable.
I usually hike alone and I carry my InReach, powered on. My spouse can go to the website and "ping" my device to locate it. I also send messages periodically so she can tell rescuers where I was and when.
I expect it will almost never fail to work as designed.
It is designed to send and receive satellite signals. If the device is in a cave, or under very heavy tree cover, or in a ravine without line-of-sight to 2 or more satellites, it will not be located. It could be in ravine because that's where I fell, or where the device fell.
If you were to randomly give half of all hikers an InReach device and the other half nothing I expect the rate of disappearance of the InReach hikers would be lower than the other half. But not zero. Whether that increased protection is worth the money is an individual decision. I can say that my wife sleeps much better during my ~48 hour absence by getting those periodic messages from me.
There was an accident on East Thorn last year. Ken May fell nearly 1000 ft from a little east of the summit into a feeder gully off of the main couloir. Few would ever venture there. Found some old webbing in the main couloir but the feeder was hidden and difficult to access. I do not think he would have been found for a long time if not for the SPOT he had transmitting to his spouse.
But the value of a PLB/SPOT/InReach is a discussion for a separate thread.
Traveling light is the only way to fly.
IG: @colorado_invasive
Strava: Brent Herring
susanjoypaul wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:14 pm
A lot of folks on this site have lost friends on the peaks, and other places too. I hope I never get to a place where it stops hurting, or think for a minute that it's just another accident, another injury, another death.
My condolences forbthis terrible tragedy.
To put numbers in perspective:
In 2020 seven 14er fatalities for 415,000 summits (CFI). Thats 1 in 60,000.
USA covid deaths were 1 per 500. More than a hundred times worse.
I knew 2 friend of friends who perished on 14ers over several decades.
I personally knew 5 who died of covid.
One of these I feel much safer- climbing 14ers.
I don't mean to be insensitive (sorry for your losses) but what alternate reality are you living in where US covid deaths are 1 out of every 500?
susanjoypaul wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:14 pm
A lot of folks on this site have lost friends on the peaks, and other places too. I hope I never get to a place where it stops hurting, or think for a minute that it's just another accident, another injury, another death.
My condolences forbthis terrible tragedy.
To put numbers in perspective:
In 2020 seven 14er fatalities for 415,000 summits (CFI). Thats 1 in 60,000.
USA covid deaths were 1 per 500. More than a hundred times worse.
I knew 2 friend of friends who perished on 14ers over several decades.
I personally knew 5 who died of covid.
One of these I feel much safer- climbing 14ers.
I don't mean to be insensitive (sorry for your losses) but what alternate reality are you living in where US covid deaths are 1 out of every 500?
the reality where 618,000 people out of a population of approximately 300 million have died of COVID. that's about 1 out of 500.
"The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you're emotionally detached from it." - George Carlin
Ugh, this is awful. If anyone knows of a Go Fund Me page or other site for collecting donations to help with this woman's medical bills, please post it here.
