The Mystery of the Gray Needle and Some Secrets Revealed, 1953

[Anima]

Excellent work Micheal, Amy, and Jonny! Finding those pitons lays to rest any question of how the 1953 climbers got to the "sharp summit ridge." Elan and I passed right under that chimney on our second pitch and neither of us saw the pitons. The Gray Needle likes to keep its secrets! I remember look at the entry crack to the chimney and saying "that was too hard for climbers in the 1950s." I should have reminded myself that this is Barry Bishop we are talking about.

So, this raises the question as what to do about the Gray Needle? We now know with near-unequivocal certainty that the 1953 party deemed the first tower the summit. Obviously Boggy has deemed the third tower the intended summit (though prior to the discovery of the bolts). Since it is a named point, there is no prominence to account for but as Jim wrote in 2012 "Steve's feeling was that Gray Needle, above, named by early miners, had to be what what was seen most prominently from the basin below" and this must have also been the predilections of the 1953 party. I tend to agree that if something is to be named then it is likely the obvious point, which in this case is the Bishop. Not only that, but the Bishop now has historical significance regardless of what the USGS intended. So perhaps the Bishop is the Gray Needle? Or we have two Gray Needles? Or... no one really cares, as completing the list of named points of 13,000 ft pertains to only a few people, and those who find themselves under the flanks of the Gray Needle are likely willing to climb both (who even knows how many times Boggy has been in the area!) If the Bishop is the Gray Needle and really goes free at 5.10b, then that would make it the most difficult point over 13k in the state.

One another note: Besides the mention of Peter in Boggys 2020 report, it doesn't appear that anyone else has climbed the pinnacles on the west end of Noname Ridge. That would mean the three of you likely made the last second ascent (maybe third ascent?) of a point over 13k in Colorado. Pretty neat!

[Boggy B]

Excellent work Micheal, Amy, and Jonny! Finding those pitons lays to rest any question of how the 1953 climbers got to the "sharp summit ridge." Elan and I passed right under that chimney on our second pitch and neither of us saw the pitons. The Gray Needle likes to keep its secrets! I remember look at the entry crack to the chimney and saying "that was too hard for climbers in the 1950s." I should have reminded myself that this is Barry Bishop we are talking about.

So, this raises the question as what to do about the Gray Needle? We now know with near-unequivocal certainty that the 1953 party deemed the first tower the summit. Obviously Boggy has deemed the third tower the intended summit (though prior to the discovery of the bolts). Since it is a named point, there is no prominence to account for but as Jim wrote in 2012 "Steve's feeling was that Gray Needle, above, named by early miners, had to be what what was seen most prominently from the basin below" and this must have also been the predilections of the 1953 party. I tend to agree that if something is to be named then it is likely the obvious point, which in this case is the Bishop. Not only that, but the Bishop now has historical significance regardless of what the USGS intended. So perhaps the Bishop is the Gray Needle? Or we have two Gray Needles? Or... no one really cares, as completing the list of named points of 13,000 ft pertains to only a few people, and those who find themselves under the flanks of the Gray Needle are likely willing to climb both (who even knows how many times Boggy has been in the area!) If the Bishop is the Gray Needle and really goes free at 5.10b, then that would make it the most difficult point over 13k in the state.

One another note: Besides the mention of Peter in Boggys 2020 report, it doesn't appear that anyone else has climbed the pinnacles on the west end of Noname Ridge. That would mean the three of you likely made the last second ascent (maybe third ascent?) of a point over 13k in Colorado. Pretty neat!

The FA party likely aided up the pitons also. Much of the crack there looked too thin for fingers, but maybe there were enough features on the adjoining ramp to smear.

I agree with you that the "Bishop" was the intended summit of the 1953 party and is the true Gray Needle, and all that's needed is to update the coordinates and elevation. The BGN location appears to be the same as on 14ers and LoJ. The true coordinates would be easiest to determine by LiDAR--your model in QGIS would probably help pinpoint the summit and saddle.

It's possible there's an easier free line, maybe on the south side. If you do not consider a courte echelle aid, then our route could go free at 5.9/+ (#4 offwidth), perhaps slightly harder than the summit pitch of The Index.

I'd love to hear from Peter Stabolepszy any details on the points they climbed and the difficulties encountered. (If we had just rappelled off the summit we'd have seen no evidence of the FA on our route). At any rate I'd wager Jonny got the first free ascent of Gray Needle. I definitely French-freed the everloving $#@! out of it.

[blazintoes]

We got the real Gray Needle! Very exciting for our team. Third time was the charm.

Thank you Anima for finding the bolts! I don’t think we would have gone back there without your success. Very impressive.

[two lunches]

okay baddies!! nice summit!! is anyone writing a TR?

[bdloftin77]

Here's some elevation and prominence info for any who are interested. I'll send John the historic Gray Needle location to update LoJ.

Needle #

5: (Historic Gray Needle): 13335', 50' rise, (37.64680,-107.59011)
4: 13397', 46' rise (37.646610, -107.589530)
3 (USGS Gray Needle): 13,446', 76' rise (37.64652,-107.58931)
2: 13530', 65' rise (37.646432,-107.588435)
1 (Noname Needle): 13617', 169' rise (37.64623,-107.58762)

[Boggy B]

Thanks, Ben! Here's a visual:

Screenshot 2024-10-03 085454.jpg

Interesting to note the map elevation 13430 is closest to the USGS-labeled point. The BGN page gives 13367 for roughly the same coordinates. More interesting is the 1932 Lavender guide gives 13700 for Gray Needle (13335 act.) and 13400 for Peak Ten (13494 act.), which might suggest Noname Needle (13617 act.) or even the needle at the northern apex of Jagged's west ridge (near 13700) was the intended named point.

okay baddies!! nice summit!! is anyone writing a TR?

Something is in the works!

[bdloftin77]

Updated on LoJ! https://listsofjohn.com/peak/373

Looks like John put 5.10 as a YDS placeholder based on Jonathan Z's LoJ ascent comment. Not sure which LoJ peak page pictures are of the actual Gray Needle vs the USGS one.

[Boggy B]

Jonny called it 10b. (Amy thinks the crux moves were harder than The Castles East, which she also climbed). As mentioned if you use a shoulder stand then our route could be significantly easier, 5.9/+ for all but the last up.

On LoJ the 2013 photo is the wrong ridge (guessing W ridge of Peak 10); the 2020 photo is the whole ridge with Gray Needle at far left; and the 2023 photo is of the USGS peak with Gray Needle partially cropped at left.

[gore galore]

The recent Gray Needle trip reports by Anima and Boggy B on finding the bolts and exploring the route of the 1953 Gray Needle climbing party to conclusively prove that the location of the 1953 Gray Needle is indeed the formation also known as The Bishop seems to end the mystery of the Gray Needle.

But there are some loose ends of the mystery though that has stayed with me from the beginning of my original post on the Gray Needle which involves who the three climbers on the 1953 ascent were.

BARRY BISHOP, 1932-1994 was a well-known climber before the Gray Needle climb of 1953 as he was a member of the first ascent party of the west buttress route on Mt. McKinley in 1951. Dr. Henry Buchtel who also summited McKinley with Bishop was the organizer and manager of the 1953 AAC/CMC Needles outing.

Bishop later summited Everest in 1963 on the American Everest expedition for enduring recognition and was a National Geographic photographer. He died in an automobile accident in 1994. His son with whom I was able to contact had no available information on the Gray Needle climb as neither did a 1952 climbing roommate of Bishop's from Dartmouth that I was able to locate.

This leaves the other two climbers with Bishop. But who were David Bidwell and Bob Ulmer and what ever happened to them?

DAVID D. BIDWELL, 1926-2015 was born in Weston, Massachusetts. At the time of the joint AAC/CMC 1953 outing to the Needle Mountains he was a member of the Chicago Mountaineering Club. According to the roster of names from the outing he was living in Arlington Heights, Illinois.

Bidwell wrote the trip report of the Gray Needle climb for the Chicago Mountaineering Club Newsletter. It is the only known record of the climb. There are no known pictures of the Gray Needle from the outing that have yet surfaced.

Prior to attending the 1953 outing there is record of D. Bidwell attending an Alpine Club of Canada camp in 1948 and climbing a new route each with others on Mt. Baker and Mt. Thompson in the Canadian Rockies.

There is also record of Dave Bidwell with a guide and two others that climbed a partial ridge route from Mount Walsh to Mount Steele during the General Camp of the Yukon Alpine Centennial Expedition in 1967.

The American Alpine Club “Membership Handbook 1999/2000” lists a David D. Bidwell living and working in Geneva, Switzerland with the date of his AAC membership from 1953 the same year of the AAC/CMC outing in which the Gray Needle was climbed.

David Bidwell was living in Geneva as early as 1969 as there is record of his second of three marriages taking place there. Mr. Bidwell at some time was the head of Proctor & Gamble International, headquartered in Geneva, Switzerland.

In 1997 David Bidwell with help from others established the Himalayan Children's Foundation and in 1999 with another created the Himalayan Youth Foundation. His love for Nepal evolved from a nine-month volunteer assignment with the International Executive Service Corps as Country Director for Nepal in 1993. He was a Director with the HYF until becoming inactive in 2002. He passed away in 2015. I was able to locate a street address in Geneva listed for Director Bidwell that matched the same street address in Geneva as for David D. Bidwell of the AAC.

There is a picture of David Bidwell for those interested on the HYF website under About, scrolling down to Our Team. I have to think that no one at the HYF or Proctor & Gamble International knew of him as one of the 1953 Gray Needle climbers.

David Bidwell was 88 upon his passing in 2015. There is no mention of his passing in the American Alpine Journal probably because his membership had elapsed. He is buried in his hometown of Weston, Massachusetts.

I know hardly anything of BOB ULMER other than the outing roster of names indicated he was from St. Louis, Missouri. Perhaps in time I will discover more of him thus tying the last of the loose ends of the mystery of the 1953 Gray Needle.

[tortilla]

I know hardly anything of BOB ULMER other than the outing roster of names indicated he was from St. Louis, Missouri. Perhaps in time I will discover more of him thus tying the last of the loose ends of the mystery of the 1953 Gray Needle.

I like playing Internet sleuth. I found an obituary for a “Robert Louis Ulmer” who passed in Nevada but was a longtime resident of Greenville, IL. Greenville is just outside of St Louis. Born in 1922 which would make him the appropriate age

[Garrett]

Climbing with friends over the weekend and it was mentioned that the location of Gray Needle may be moved, which seemed odd to me. I probably wouldn’t have thought much more about it but looks like it was already moved to the 1950’s high point on list of john so figured I would voice an alternate perspective on this if moving it is being considered here.

To me it never seemed like much of a mystery that the summit was located at the usgs point with the name and elevation marked. While the route of the 1950’s party is intriguing it was never overly relevant to determining the location of the peak. The “USGS” summit is clearly shown on the map, stated in Rosebrough’s book on page 150, same elevation in Roach’s list. Independent of a lot of the 14ers info I also determined and climbed the “USGS summit” finding the plastic register left by Boggy though we went up a crack system further west to reach the summit. If you don’t factor in the mystery, romance, and folklore of the 1950’s ascent built up on this site it seems pretty straight forward.

image001.png

. I rarely post so hopefully the picture is added but I fail to see how the top of the 1950’s route would actually be considered the “real gray needle”. Picture shows the list of john coordinate versus the usgs which I think is telling. The topo map is just as defined. With the smaller points muted in the imagery the “usgs summit” is clearly more defined.

Maybe I’m missing something but why does the high point of the 1950’s party determine the summit? This was mentioned in some of the comments and trip reports? Seems all to common throughout climbing and mountaineering history that a party made a valiant effort thinking they made a summit, only to later find out they did not. J.Spiller on Wilson Peak, Langford and Stevenson on the Grand Teton, cerro torre to name a few off hand, numerous others as well. A few comments indicate the usgs maybe made an error rather than the climbers but the mapping all looks good to me and the FA party wouldn’t have had maps of great detail anyway so the error is most likely theirs. Pretty understandable and not uncommon.

Also this seems to go against precedent recently set by lidar data. Seems like summits were shifted in favor of the true topographic summit rather than based on long held climbers summits. So why put the 1950’s highpoint over the map/data in this one situation. It creates a discrepancy in the list.

If changing the location of this summit is still a notion I have to disagree. The assumed high point of a historic climbing party dies not determine a summit location. Happy to discuss that further or maybe it’s long settled as it is. I respect and appreciate the effort and climbing that went into finding the 1950 route as well, pretty cool to see but just don’t think that has any bearing on the summit location.

And just to add to the Gray Needle fire I’ll add my own speculation that the real, real Gray Needle may truly be Noname Needle but you’d have to figure out who named it. That may be the actual unspoken mystery of this peak. The answer is likely in the 1874 Hayden Survey notes by Franklin Rhoda which are located in the DC National Archive. Though I don’t propose changing anything between those peaks, it’s named on the map as it is now and has been since the early 60’s. If the Hayden Survey named Gray Needle and they likely did, maybe, the only survey station they could see it from would be Station 38 aka the summit of N2/South Snowden. Only you can’t see the USGS or 1950’s high point from Station 38, you can however see No Name Needle which is a later climbers name to my understanding. See the Station 38 sketch in the book Summits to Reach which matches the attached photo.

IMG_3957.jpeg

IMG_4089.jpeg

So did the Hayden survey name the peak, did the 1930’s San Juan Mountaineers, or someone else? Given todays No Name needle (possibly Rhodas Gray Needle) appears rather prominent from Station 38 it makes sense they might name it and determine an elevation. But it is difficult or can’t be seen from any of the other surrounding survey Stations which may have lead to difficulties later to determine where to exactly place Gray Needle based on survey notes. That may better explain the 1932 Lavender elevation previously listed in this thread which I thought was particularly interesting. But that’s all speculation so who knows.

[Boggy B]

I'm of the mind the FA party would not have claimed to have summited Gray Needle unless they believed themselves to be standing atop the named feature. I don't know the examples you gave, but I'd wager the fact the 1953 Gray Needle is obviously much lower than even the adjacent pinnacle is a key differentiator. By the time Gray Needle was climbed (and even on the day it was climbed), Peak Ten had been previously climbed and Gray Needle reconnoitered, thus the topography of "Noname Ridge" was well known, meaning the FA party would not have stopped short on the first and lowest needle--nor climbed it in the first place--if they weren't assured of the coveted summit.

I always suspected the modern USGS designation was in error, as later surveys produced new closed contours along the ridge, and the middle of a sloping ridge is an unlikely candidate, considering especially that "Noname Needle" isn't official and would have been up for grabs. Furthermore, it's common for named, unranked summits to be located at the low ends of ridges (Sheep Mountain, King Solomon, Middle Mountain, Mount Cosgriff, Thunder Mountain, to name just a few off the top of my head) since these appeared prominent from the vantage point of the namer. The low end of "Noname Ridge" certainly appears prominent from the common approach up Noname Creek.

If an error were made, it would have been either that 1) they, knowing the layout of "Noname Ridge," believed the name indeed designated the western end rather than the highpoint, or 2) the designation was misplaced on the original maps. That assumes the name was assigned by the Hayden survey, where evidence presented here (name handwritten on the climber's map alongside typefaced Hayden names) seems to contradict that idea.

Still, I agree it's possible Gray Needle is the originally intended designation of "Noname Needle." If that were proven, we should move Gray Needle there and make "Noname Needle" an alternate name. But the best evidence we currently have is the 1953 party intentionally summited the lowest point on "Noname Ridge" because they believed that was Gray Needle, as named by whomever, and after much time spent in this area looking at and exploring this ridge every which way, I tend to agree with the FA.