Big Cats

[dubsho3000]

CPW seems to be moot on the issue according to the link you provided earlier. They say they will implement whatever the legislature and voters pass. Is there a mechanism for the CPW to change the legality of mountain lion hunting? Is that within their authority?

CPW specifically does not take stances on ballot issues. I've wondered if there are avenues they (CPW) can take should the prop pass and at some point in the future the mountain lion population needs culled. The answer is yes, although IANAL. If you read the full prop 127, Section 2(a)(II)(B) specifically excludes CPW personell (and other gov personell) from the ban, including for reasons beyond protection of life and property.
https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/electi ... 1Final.pdf

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I was wondering if the CPW could change the law now, not after the prop is voted on. Could they, today, decide that hunting lions is contrary to their management goals and just ban lion hunting? I'm sure they could drastically limit tags and make it harder - sounds like they are already limiting kills on the Western Slope.

You reminded me that this proposition is also about trapping, which seems incredibly cruel to me, especially for animals where the meat is not really desirable.

[Arndorfer]

Trophy hunting - harvesting an animal only for its horns or antlers and wasting the meat already does not exist in Colorado. The hunting regulations state that hunters of all big game species must "reasonably dress, care for, prepare and provide edible wildlife meat for human consumption. At a minimum, the four quarters, tenderloins and backstraps are edible meat. Internal organs are not considered edible meat." That means one must pack the meat out no matter how far it is from your vehicle. I personally have enjoyed the meat from every big game animal that I have harvested - including the elk I got three weeks ago. Like this rule, regulation of big cat hunting is best in the hands of CPW. I will be voting No on this issue.

[onebyone]

Trophy hunting - harvesting an animal only for its horns or antlers and wasting the meat already does not exist in Colorado. The hunting regulations state that hunters of all big game species must "reasonably dress, care for, prepare and provide edible wildlife meat for human consumption. At a minimum, the four quarters, tenderloins and backstraps are edible meat. Internal organs are not considered edible meat." That means one must pack the meat out no matter how far it is from your vehicle. I personally have enjoyed the meat from every big game animal that I have harvested - including the elk I got three weeks ago. Like this rule, regulation of big cat hunting is best in the hands of CPW. I will be voting No on this issue.

Cmon. If you think hunting lions is about the meat then I got a bridge to sell you. Of course, it's trophy hunting and it doesn't matter how you spin it. Just be honest and call it what it is.

[seannunn]

Trophy hunting - harvesting an animal only for its horns or antlers and wasting the meat already does not exist in Colorado. The hunting regulations state that hunters of all big game species must "reasonably dress, care for, prepare and provide edible wildlife meat for human consumption. At a minimum, the four quarters, tenderloins and backstraps are edible meat. Internal organs are not considered edible meat." That means one must pack the meat out no matter how far it is from your vehicle. I personally have enjoyed the meat from every big game animal that I have harvested - including the elk I got three weeks ago. Like this rule, regulation of big cat hunting is best in the hands of CPW. I will be voting No on this issue.

Cmon. If you think hunting lions is about the meat then I got a bridge to sell you. Of course, it's trophy hunting and it doesn't matter how you spin it. Just be honest and call it what it is.

I don't have a cat in this fight, but I have to agree with onebyone on this. I have never been asked if I have ever had mountain lion meat or if I liked it. Deer and elk meat is a different story, even though some people also hunt those mostly for the trophy heads.

Sean Nunn

[montanahiker]

Trophy hunting - harvesting an animal only for its horns or antlers and wasting the meat already does not exist in Colorado. The hunting regulations state that hunters of all big game species must "reasonably dress, care for, prepare and provide edible wildlife meat for human consumption. At a minimum, the four quarters, tenderloins and backstraps are edible meat. Internal organs are not considered edible meat." That means one must pack the meat out no matter how far it is from your vehicle. I personally have enjoyed the meat from every big game animal that I have harvested - including the elk I got three weeks ago. Like this rule, regulation of big cat hunting is best in the hands of CPW. I will be voting No on this issue.

Cmon. If you think hunting lions is about the meat then I got a bridge to sell you. Of course, it's trophy hunting and it doesn't matter how you spin it. Just be honest and call it what it is.

I don't have a cat in this fight, but I have to agree with onebyone on this. I have never been asked if I have ever had mountain lion meat or if I liked it. Deer and elk meat is a different story, even though some people also hunt those mostly for the trophy heads.

Sean Nunn

So because the two of you don't know people that hunt less popular animals for food those people must not exist and if they are hunting they must just be throwing the meat away? It's possible to hunt an animal partially for it's uniqueness and challenge and also enjoy the meat it provides. Just because you take more than the meat home doesn't mean it's trophy hunting.

[seannunn]

Cmon. If you think hunting lions is about the meat then I got a bridge to sell you. Of course, it's trophy hunting and it doesn't matter how you spin it. Just be honest and call it what it is.

I don't have a cat in this fight, but I have to agree with onebyone on this. I have never been asked if I have ever had mountain lion meat or if I liked it. Deer and elk meat is a different story, even though some people also hunt those mostly for the trophy heads.

Sean Nunn

So because the two of you don't know people that hunt less popular animals for food those people must not exist and if they are hunting they must just be throwing the meat away? It's possible to hunt an animal partially for it's uniqueness and challenge and also enjoy the meat it provides. Just because you take more than the meat home doesn't mean it's trophy hunting.

Like I said, I don't have a cat in the fight. I accept what you are saying. And to me there isn't necessarily anything wrong with hunting for a trophy head, IF the animal isn't endangered and IF it is hunted by fair means. I leave it up to others to decide what level of population constitutes endangered and what constitutes fair means.

Sean Nunn
Peculiar, MO

[onebyone]

Cmon. If you think hunting lions is about the meat then I got a bridge to sell you. Of course, it's trophy hunting and it doesn't matter how you spin it. Just be honest and call it what it is.

I don't have a cat in this fight, but I have to agree with onebyone on this. I have never been asked if I have ever had mountain lion meat or if I liked it. Deer and elk meat is a different story, even though some people also hunt those mostly for the trophy heads.

Sean Nunn

So because the two of you don't know people that hunt less popular animals for food those people must not exist and if they are hunting they must just be throwing the meat away? It's possible to hunt an animal partially for it's uniqueness and challenge and also enjoy the meat it provides. Just because you take more than the meat home doesn't mean it's trophy hunting.

People hunt lions for the trophy. Just be honest about it. Hunting lion for the meat! lol. Sorry, I'm not stupid. Every lion hunter gets that thing mounted and displayed.

[John619]

Hunting is about game management and the carrying capacity of the land to support a population. Everything is related and needs to taken into account to stay in ballance. For example the more mountain lions there are the more their numbers impact the deer and elk populations (just like introducing wolves).

My 2 cents...

[Arndorfer]

Hunting is about game management and the carrying capacity of the land to support a population. Everything is related and needs to taken into account to stay in balance. For example the more mountain lions there are the more their numbers impact the deer and elk populations (just like introducing wolves).

My 2 cents...

Exactly. One of the purposes of hunting is game management in addition to the physical and mental challenges, time spent with family in the outdoors, and harvesting of meat, antlers/horns and pelts. Mountain lion and bobcat populations are actually more prevalent now under CPW management with regulated hunting than they were decades ago. Also, note the points in this forum on the issue from PBS 12:
https://video.pbs12.org/video/2024-ball ... 1728320389

[LURE]

I want to address the hunting with dogs thing.

It's not unsporting and it's not easy. Houndsmen have devoted a lifetime to their skill and craft and are among the most skilled woodsmen around. It is not easy. When CPW needs to find a problem lion they contract with houndsmen to find and tree the cat because that is the way you do it. If anyone thinks it is easy to train a small pack of dogs to tree lions, let me see you do it. These folks are steeped in the woods and have the utmost respect for their dogs and the lions. Even without the dog, cutting fresh tracks is a skill and even knowing where to start your dogs is a hard learned skill in and of itself.

We are talking about one of the single most regulated forms of hunting in colorado.

Trophy hunting lions is already illegal, killing canadian lynx is already illegal.

This is really an issue of being anti hunting or pro regulated hunting as there are no biologically necessary reasons to outlaw mt lion or bobcat hunting. Per CPWs own fact sheets mt lion populations are incredibly healthy and robust in colorado along with bobcats. If there were biologically necessary reasons to stop mt lion hunting in colorado, i can assure you the CPW commissioners would take that step where necessary. The verbiage in the proposed statute defined hunting a mt lion in any way as "trophy hunting." A pretty drastic and disingenuous step to take and IMO shows that the true motivation of the proposition is one of being anti hunting.

Lions will still have to be killed if this passes. Their numbers will start trending even more upward, higher than CPW biologists and DWMs would like to see and there will be a steady increase in problem lions that CPW will have no choice but to euthanize.

Please don't believe any claims that this will help CWD if it passes - there is not a shred of evidence to support that claim. Folks made that claim about wolves and it was refuted by former CPW officials.

If you don't like the idea of mt lions being hunted with dogs, that's fine, but don't vote yes on this because of that. If that's your take, vote no, and petition the commission with your concerns. A blanket ban is not a good solution to that concern.

Lastly, wildlife management should be based in science, but the decisions will never be 100% based on science. As a public trust, widlife are managed with many things in consideration: social, biological, financial, etc. Science needs to inform the decisions made, but the decisions will also have to take into account many other things.

This ballot initiative blatantly disregards science and removes from CPWs management tool kit for no good reason. Please consider the totality of the situation before voting.

The wolf proposition has been quite the debacle and it's a very bad precent to continue to set with using ballots to dictate wildlife policy.

Reading CPWs own FAQ document on Mt Lions, Bobcat, and Lynx is worth your time, no matter how you feel about the proposition - https://cpw.widencollective.com/assets/ ... u2g44shvci

[Wentzl]

Lure, very nicely said.

I started this thread because like others here, I like cats. Starting with that, I was inclined to vote for the ban. Despite being considered a troll by many, I actually did have a split mind on the question.

Thank you for the input. The "vote No" side of the debate seems much stronger and persuasive.

I also learned that people actually do eat cats. Who knew?

https://www.petersenshunting.com/editor ... eat/365086

I voted NO on the wolves, I will vote no on the ban on hunting cats and I will continue in a belief that decisions about wildlife management should be made by experts, not progressive democrats in Denver.

[transplant_hiker]

I want to address the hunting with dogs thing.

It's not unsporting and it's not easy. Houndsmen have devoted a lifetime to their skill and craft and are among the most skilled woodsmen around. It is not easy. When CPW needs to find a problem lion they contract with houndsmen to find and tree the cat because that is the way you do it. If anyone thinks it is easy to train a small pack of dogs to tree lions, let me see you do it. These folks are steeped in the woods and have the utmost respect for their dogs and the lions. Even without the dog, cutting fresh tracks is a skill and even knowing where to start your dogs is a hard learned skill in and of itself.

We are talking about one of the single most regulated forms of hunting in colorado.

Trophy hunting lions is already illegal, killing canadian lynx is already illegal.

This is really an issue of being anti hunting or pro regulated hunting as there are no biologically necessary reasons to outlaw mt lion or bobcat hunting. Per CPWs own fact sheets mt lion populations are incredibly healthy and robust in colorado along with bobcats. If there were biologically necessary reasons to stop mt lion hunting in colorado, i can assure you the CPW commissioners would take that step where necessary. The verbiage in the proposed statute defined hunting a mt lion in any way as "trophy hunting." A pretty drastic and disingenuous step to take and IMO shows that the true motivation of the proposition is one of being anti hunting.

Lions will still have to be killed if this passes. Their numbers will start trending even more upward, higher than CPW biologists and DWMs would like to see and there will be a steady increase in problem lions that CPW will have no choice but to euthanize.

Please don't believe any claims that this will help CWD if it passes - there is not a shred of evidence to support that claim. Folks made that claim about wolves and it was refuted by former CPW officials.

If you don't like the idea of mt lions being hunted with dogs, that's fine, but don't vote yes on this because of that. If that's your take, vote no, and petition the commission with your concerns. A blanket ban is not a good solution to that concern.

Lastly, wildlife management should be based in science, but the decisions will never be 100% based on science. As a public trust, widlife are managed with many things in consideration: social, biological, financial, etc. Science needs to inform the decisions made, but the decisions will also have to take into account many other things.

This ballot initiative blatantly disregards science and removes from CPWs management tool kit for no good reason. Please consider the totality of the situation before voting.

The wolf proposition has been quite the debacle and it's a very bad precent to continue to set with using ballots to dictate wildlife policy.

Reading CPWs own FAQ document on Mt Lions, Bobcat, and Lynx is worth your time, no matter how you feel about the proposition - https://cpw.widencollective.com/assets/ ... u2g44shvci

Very nicely said! I just hope that people will vote with their heads and not their emotions.