Ultra Runner in Court for Cutting Switchback

[andlours]

While we’re at it, I wish we could just turn off the rain and wind and eliminate this pesky erosion problem once and for all.

[astranko]

I feel righteous indignation when I get a speeding ticket, but I still recognize eventually that I had it coming.

If we're running with ba dum tiss this analogy, it's like being the only one speeding out of a flock of people doing the same. Even if my exhaust is louder and I'm driving an exotic, if I'm in a crowd of folks speeding and I'm the one who is facing a reckless driving charge, I'm going to feel a little more slighted.

From the article which opened the thread:

Grand Teton National Park rangers gave Sunseri a ticket for violating 36CFR2.1(b), which prohibits “leaving a trail or walkway to shortcut between portions of the same trail or adjacent trail in the national park.” The citation comes with a maximum penalty of $5,000 and six months in jail.

When offered a plea bargain of a misdemeanor conviction, five-year ban from the national park and a fine, Sunseri opted to challenge the charges...

Not really an insubstantial series of possible penalties.

[supranihilest]

Frankly I care about nobody's opinion on this except huge-schlonged FKT-havers (huge-schlonged FKT-having ladies included). Everyone else is inferior and their opinions are s**t.

[martintravis]

Good. FKTs and runners are fine as long as they don't cut switchbacks. It's common on Longs peak and other trails as well and its about time something was done about it.

Not only is it common on longs peak, I once brought up the dichotomy and double standard on this site and was roundly met with a chorus of boos and admonishment that it's perfectly fine, it's well established, the rangers use it, how dare I ask why a FKT attempt should have different rules than Joe Schmoe.

[Boggy B]

I feel righteous indignation when I get a speeding ticket, but I still recognize eventually that I had it coming.

If we're running with ba dum tiss this analogy, it's like being the only one speeding out of a flock of people doing the same. Even if my exhaust is louder and I'm driving an exotic, if I'm in a crowd of folks speeding and I'm the one who is facing a reckless driving charge, I'm going to feel a little more slighted.

From the article which opened the thread:

Grand Teton National Park rangers gave Sunseri a ticket for violating 36CFR2.1(b), which prohibits “leaving a trail or walkway to shortcut between portions of the same trail or adjacent trail in the national park.” The citation comes with a maximum penalty of $5,000 and six months in jail.

When offered a plea bargain of a misdemeanor conviction, five-year ban from the national park and a fine, Sunseri opted to challenge the charges...

Not really an insubstantial series of possible penalties.

My contribution to state coffers for moving violations exceeds $5,000 (like, I collect LEO business cards). It sounds like you haven't been singled out of a flock of speeders before. It's the same thing, with higher stakes. I'll be shocked if he pays $5 grand or does jail time. Regardless, prospective legal penalties and having been denied the FKT is nothing compared to a career athlete being stripped of the fruits of his life's work while others carry on cheating at the same game. My point was that it can be both an injustice and a due punishment.

[Monster5]

Astranko's list of previous established FKTers is notably missing Andy Anderson, whose Grand Teton FKT popularized the issue. Andy's iRunFar interview doesn't hardline against short cutting, but cites him being able to run an established trail faster as the primary factor. There is a secondary consideration for following local custom, noting that Bryce Thatcher also didn't cut trails for his long-established Grand Teton FKT. It was really Jornet who broke custom on that particular route.

I don't like the legal precedent of going off trail being punishable in court. That's dangerous for all but the highest established peaks and a sense of exploration without more defined boundaries. I do think Sunseri is a bit of a punk for not following the previous FKTers established and well known rule. I think this thought can likely be extended towards certain 14er FKT records as well.

Per Longs peak, there's a question of what is "established" given that the rangers also maintain those trails and they are sustainable for current usage. The only questionable ones in my mind used frequently flank MLW from Cables to top of Jim's in tundra and talus (no current sign of impact), and a social cut crossing the tight switchbacks between tree line and the straightaway.

[blazintoes]

Sunseri’s Grand Teton FKT controversy highlights broader ethical tensions in the world of FKTs, particularly around transparency, land use, and evolving community standards.

Key Points:
1. Transparency vs. Legality
Had Sunseri disclosed his intention to cut the switchback before his FKT attempt, it wouldn’t have made the act legal or ethical — but it would have invited community dialogue and shown integrity. Pre-disclosure creates space for collective reflection, rather than post-hoc defensiveness or enforcement drama.

2. Sunseri vs. Armstrong Analogy (major differences)
Sunseri: Made a minor rule violation, was transparent, and faced a public trial.
Armstrong: Systematically doped, lied, sued whistleblowers, and profited massively before a dramatic downfall.
The comparison highlights a key difference: Armstrong’s downfall was driven by calculated deceit and exploitation, while Sunseri’s stemmed more from arrogance, poor judgment, and unexamined assumptions. If you choose to be a high-profile, sponsored athlete seeking visibility, you also accept the responsibility of public scrutiny — fair or not, it comes with the territory.

3. Trail Rules and Land Context Matter
GTNP, switchback cutting is illegal on designated trails (CFR § 2.1(b)).
RMNP the LA Freeway is an off-trail alpine scramble — no switchbacks exist, so “cutting” isn’t applicable.
Therefore, legal and ethical standards depend on terrain type, trail status, and park-specific regulations. RMNP has designated trails, but LA Freeway route is entirely off-trail — on ridges, peaks, talus fields, and alpine terrain where no designated trail exists. Since 36 CFR § 2.1(b) only applies to "shortcuts on the same or adjacent designated trail", you're not violating it if you're not on a trail to begin with.

Read the rules and ask questions before assuming rights.

4. Why This Matters
FKTs Are Becoming a Cultural Force
Fastest Known Times are no longer just personal feats — they now intersect with sponsorships, media narratives, and athlete identity. In the outdoor world, FKTs have become a form of currency — a way to gain visibility, credibility, and even commercial support. Whether or not you agree with that shift, it’s real, and it’s reshaping the landscape of adventure sports.

As “Games Climbers Play” (~Astranko) reminds us, these pursuits are voluntary games defined by self-imposed rules. Their meaning comes not from medals or institutions, but from the community’s shared commitment to ethics, style, and restraint. When the pressure of prestige and money enters the picture, those ethics are tested. The only way FKTs retain integrity is if we — the community — take responsibility for questioning, evolving, and upholding those norms.

The backlash against Erin Ton’s “Public Lands Only” 14er FKT showed both the power and danger of community response. While collective scrutiny is vital, mob behavior without due process threatens the open dialogue that FKTs depend on.

As FKTs gain prominence, thorny issues like doping, performance-enhancing drugs, and monetary incentives will need to be addressed. Without clear ethical guidance, the FKT space risks sliding into the same pitfalls that have plagued more institutionalized sports.

5. Historical & Community Significance
FKTs also play an important archival role: they track regional achievements, record the evolution of style and speed, and spark necessary conversations about land access, conservation, and fair play. They're not just about being fast — they're a living record of how we move through the wild, and what we value when we do.

TLDR
I researched the rules and differences between them with respect to both National Parks and pondered a double-standard with regards to trail cutting. The above was an effort to rhetorically and formally answer the questions I posted earlier. As a former competitive athlete and having dabbled in FKT's it's disappointing (but not shocking) when I hear from reliable resources about athletes cheating and/or doping.

"For fortune and glory kid, fortune and glory"

[justiner]

do we have an rule about AI use on the forum, or naw?

[justiner]

do we have a rule about AI use on the forum, or naw?

[blazintoes]

do we have a rule about AI use on the forum, or naw?

Only if it starts winning 14er FKT's, posting TR's and climbing 5.15d.

[blazintoes]

Astranko's list of previous established FKTers is notably missing Andy Anderson, whose Grand Teton FKT popularized the issue. Andy's iRunFar interview doesn't hardline against short cutting, but cites him being able to run an established trail faster as the primary factor. There is a secondary consideration for following local custom, noting that Bryce Thatcher also didn't cut trails for his long-established Grand Teton FKT. It was really Jornet who broke custom on that particular route.

I don't like the legal precedent of going off trail being punishable in court. That's dangerous for all but the highest established peaks and a sense of exploration without more defined boundaries. I do think Sunseri is a bit of a punk for not following the previous FKTers established and well known rule. I think this thought can likely be extended towards certain 14er FKT records as well.

Per Longs peak, there's a question of what is "established" given that the rangers also maintain those trails and they are sustainable for current usage. The only questionable ones in my mind used frequently flank MLW from Cables to top of Jim's in tundra and talus (no current sign of impact), and a social cut crossing the tight switchbacks between tree line and the straightaway.

It is nerve-wracking to blow by people on the Keyhole when you're aiming for Cable's then claiming, "I wasn't on a trail to begin with!"

[seano]

I am curious as to how "trail like" the aforementioned social trail is.
Is it a well worn but narrow dirt trail?
Or is it a place where the vegetation is just smashed down a little bit.

It's a well-worn dirt trail that hasn't noticeably eroded in the 15 years I've been visiting the Tetons. It's also clearly signed as "do not use." Not a lot of people use it, but enough do to keep it from becoming overgrown like the other shortcut lower down. It's not one of those tiny shortcuts saving 20 yards next to a switchback -- you can't see the end from the beginning, and it probably cuts the better part of a mile.

I'm not offering an opinion, but just describing what we're talking about.