Lost Tent, Gear, and Rope on Jagged

[climbingcue]

We also brought a lightweight 30m rope for Jagged and just did multiple rappels. I think this is the best course of action just in case you don’t feel comfortable on the down climb.

[9patrickmurphy]

Everyone is going to have a very different comfort level and skill set with respect to down-climbing 5.easy (not to mention it would be a really different experience for someone who is 5’2 versus 6’0). I did this peak over 10 years ago so it’s possible I would just solo it now. Regardless, I would never encourage random people I don’t know on the internet to just solo it. In my opinion, lacking the technical skills to do something should not be THE reason to solo it.

Not encouraging one way or the other, just offering a different perspective. Rappelling is complicated and risky. Downclimbing is also complicated and risky. There are definitely pros and cons to both, and I think that downclimbing should be considered as a viable (and potentially safer) option, depending on the climber/climbing party.

People have different strengths and weaknesses and will experience the mountain differently. Perhaps the safest option would be to bring a short (~30m) rope and make a real-time judgement call if rappelling or downclimbing is the move.

[d_baker]

When rijaca and I climbed Jagged, we carried 2 30m 8.something half ropes.
Ricky carried one and I carried one.
And I carried some webbing and a leaver biner or a rap ring, not sure which. (Probably in my report)
Anyway, I never went in with the thought of rapping off the summit, so never looked for hangers or rap station off the summit.

If extending masterpoint over the lip, is there a edge or ledge to get feet on below the lip of summit?
So one can be anchored in and get their rope(s) into a rap device, and ease their weight onto the rap setup before coming off personal anchor?

[HikerBox]

Now I'm wondering why climber 2 saw the rope (used the rope?) deemed it questionable in safety, but also left it there what's going on. How many people are going to rap and injure themselves before it gets removed?

The fact that another party noted it was questionable and still rapped off it is WILD! Climbing 101: never blindly trust an unknown fixed line or anchor in the alpine.

Just to clarify, Buckie06 and I pulled the rope to inspect it at the summit before rappelling. The bottom piece that was added had one or two core shots so we removed it and carried it out (it's now a bear hang in camp) - that was the questionable part along with a broken tag line on a fixed rope. The 60m was in good shape, the anchors were solid (after locking the biner that was there unlocked...) and no we did not have esoteric knowledge of 1980's anchor vulnerabilities (but adding more tat to the summit when there are TWO bolts seemed silly). We did not remove the 60m because we did not know why it was there and whether someone was relying on it in the future. OP's rescue happened independently of us while we arrived in Sunlight basin whereas he came up Noname. We did not see a single person the day of the rescue, only a flight for life helicopter circling the general area. I was pulled off the ledge because Buckie thought the rope was loaded prior to going over the edge of the ledge we were on and I was tied in above them. It was not fully stretched yet so I got pulled off. I was fine, it was a learning experience people should be aware of that seems worth sharing on a forum dedicated to climbing mountains.

If you were at the summit at 11 am with darkening skies (which later cleared) with a clueless hiker friend/pack mule (me) I think you both would have opt'ed to shave 30 minutes off your descent time with a single 60m rap, followed by a short rap off the same fixed line rather than either a series of double strand <15m rappels on a 30m rope where pulling the rope can easily get stuck (based on other reports) or a convoluted downclimb and multiple short rappels.

Maybe think about how your WILD criticism of people trying to post incidents for others to learn about effects whether other people will share learning experiences in the future when you don't know all the details? I know it's hard to see that far down from your high horses of hindsight. I can imagine either of you volunteering for SAR and spending the whole mission telling the victims how stupid they are instead of actually helping.

[justiner]

Maybe think about how your WILD criticism of people trying to post incidents for others to learn about effects whether other people will share learning experiences in the future when you don't know all the details?

Reread what I wrote, I was actually asking questions, as the situation made little sense and I was looking to understand. This is also a head scratcher:

I was pulled off the ledge because Buckie thought the rope was loaded prior to going over the edge of the ledge we were on and I was tied in above them. It was not fully stretched yet so I got pulled off.

This was when rappelling?

I have a little bit of climbing experience, and I believe Rose has much more. I can only speak for myself, but reading how you describe this descent makes me nervous to say the least. Rappelling can be one of the most dangerous parts of a climb, as illustrated by the brilliant climbers over the years that we've lost to a rappelling mishap.

I can imagine either of you volunteering for SAR and spending the whole mission telling the victims how stupid they are instead of actually helping.

Personal attacks aside, I think we're all trying to chat about accidents in this forum in a way to avoid needing rescue, based on the limited information we have about the rescue. "How could this have happened" is always a point of contention. I usually suggest getting fitness and technique dialed down in more controlled and safer places, before taking them to isolated peaks.

[backcountrybrodes]

Now I'm wondering why climber 2 saw the rope (used the rope?) deemed it questionable in safety, but also left it there what's going on. How many people are going to rap and injure themselves before it gets removed?

The fact that another party noted it was questionable and still rapped off it is WILD! Climbing 101: never blindly trust an unknown fixed line or anchor in the alpine.

Just to clarify, Buckie06 and I pulled the rope to inspect it at the summit before rappelling. The bottom piece that was added had one or two core shots so we removed it and carried it out (it's now a bear hang in camp) - that was the questionable part along with a broken tag line on a fixed rope. The 60m was in good shape, the anchors were solid (after locking the biner that was there unlocked...) and no we did not have esoteric knowledge of 1980's anchor vulnerabilities (but adding more tat to the summit when there are TWO bolts seemed silly). We did not remove the 60m because we did not know why it was there and whether someone was relying on it in the future... (continued)

Sounds like a slightly risky, but logical response given the situation you were in. (Especially taking the effects of time at altitude, incoming weather, and desire for efficiency on judgement calls in the alpine.) Calling back to my perspective of how your day happened *before* I read your account, I too would have had a funny feeling from hearing about someone blindly rapping off of a rope of unknown condition. As for the rest of the target audience of this thread - i.e. those planning a roped alpine route in the future - don't shy away from providing (hopefully cordial and informed) criticism or advice. Worst case, criticism is bothersome and unhelpful. Best case, it can save a life.

[HikerBox]

Maybe think about how your WILD criticism of people trying to post incidents for others to learn about effects whether other people will share learning experiences in the future when you don't know all the details?

Reread what I wrote, I was actually asking questions, as the situation made little sense and I was looking to understand. This is also a head scratcher:

I don't follow what was questionable in safety with the posts above yours? Why would you assume we would rappel 60m off a questionably safe setup and what was that based on? The question seems pretty baseless to me

I was pulled off the ledge because Buckie thought the rope was loaded prior to going over the edge of the ledge we were on and I was tied in above them. It was not fully stretched yet so I got pulled off.

This was when rappelling?

Yes, I am not a climber so Buckie wanted to make sure my rap setup was correct and set us up before rappelling. In hindsight, I should have just tied in after their rap.

I have a little bit of climbing experience, and I believe Rose has much more. I can only speak for myself, but reading how you describe this descent makes me nervous to say the least. Rappelling can be one of the most dangerous parts of a climb, as illustrated by the brilliant climbers over the years that we've lost to a rappelling mishap.

It was not our rope but we had reports from people up there several weeks ago that did not mention a rope. That means at most it would have been up there a pretty short amount of time I don't think a week or two of UV damage to the sheath would have made any difference. People have been rappelling off the summit bolts apparently for several decades without incident. Building clouds made us more nervous than a single line rappel off a fixed rope.

I can imagine either of you volunteering for SAR and spending the whole mission telling the victims how stupid they are instead of actually helping.

Personal attacks aside, I think we're all trying to chat about accidents in this forum in a way to avoid needing rescue, based on the limited information we have about the rescue. "How could this have happened" is always a point of contention. I usually suggest getting fitness and technique dialed down in more controlled and safer places, before taking them to isolated peaks.

Sorry just throwing an over the top jab in there because I had been thinking about how a typical SAR social media post would have described everything versus how people critiquing each other in online forums. Buckie06 is very experienced (I am not) and we discussed all the potential things that could go wrong (like our ability to re-ascend, which we did have, and the rope stretch) prior to rappelling. Fitness and unfamiliarity with the climbers trail led to a later than expected summit time but all weather forecasts were for 20-30% chance starting at noon so we weren't expecting clouds until they started building. We could have done some practice rappelling at camp but didn't expect to be in a situation where me being tied in above would have been an issue since we only had a 30m rope.

[andrew85]

All, it's taken me a while but I finally have a trip report up for this. Lol it's quite long, but hopefully at least the third section of it provides some additional context that addresses some of the discussion points that have been brought up here.

As for my gear, everything that was at my campsite (except my sleeping bag) and the rope has been retrieved! I genuinely had prepared myself to accept that they were lost to the wilderness and had posted here as a long shot, but there are some truly awesome people in this community that were willing to get stuff back for me and to you I am forever thankful! Lol as for the sleeping bag, I assume the marmots have gotten it by now (they completely SHREDDED the handle corks off of my trekking poles!) and it's just the winter sleeping bag from the army's three bag system, so finding another at a military surplus shouldn't be too difficult.

Lastly, thank you to all wishing me a speedy recovery! It was fortunately only my lower fibula that broke so I won't need surgery at least, but it'll still be a few weeks of recovery in a boot at least.