LoJ unranked 13ers not on 14ers.com

[Monster5]

Well, let's call it like it is. Towers are the only peaks worth climbing.

[Garrett]

Man Eli… I don’t think Plato climbed any 13ers. Might have had some different notions about reality otherwise.

Here’s the SJM text about 300 ft. I can post the Graves article later today.

…Edit to this… Let me get permission to post that article first from CMC. I’ve gotten a lot of info from the CMC library and want to respect them. Posting excerpts is fair use but a whole article might be too much without permission.

IMG_2436.jpeg

[bdloftin77]

Here’s the SJM text about 300 ft. I can post the Graves article later today.

IMG_2436.jpeg

Thanks for posting! Looks like he doesn't provide any references, though he was probably following Nathaniel Goodrich's (Appalachian Mountain Club) 1931 example.

[jfm3]

The debate over what is or is not a "peak" is not quite as bad as what it means or doesn't mean to "climb" a mountain.

But then again, I took a Classics course my freshman year of college and for one assignment I somehow reached the conclusion that "Socrates is full of s**t" so what do I know?

[bdloftin77]

Has anyone created a list of unranked 13ers that are listed on LoJ but not listed on 14ers.com?

Here are some examples:

"The Butterknife" 13,479 Tenmile
"North Conejos Peak" 13,048 San Juan
"Little Wasatch Mountain" 13,037 San Juan
"Gibraltar Mountain" 13,293 Front
"Ski Hayden Peak" 13,324 Elk
"Captain Bivwacko Tower" 13,698 Sangre de Cristo

If anyone sees any I missed, let me know. If any locations or prominences seem pretty off, let me know too (I analyzed a lot of these to complete the CO 13ers list on LoJ, but some were tricky to determine where the summit was, especially small tower locations or bumps on a ridge).

"East Babcock Peak" P=254 Source: Guidebook
"Punta Serpiente" P=218 Source: Roach
"North Summit" P=163 Source: SJM guidebook
"The Hand" P=160 Source: SJM guidebook
"Bob Ormes Points" P=145 Source: Stewart M. Green guidebook
"Ski Hayden Peak" P=141 Source: Ski guidebook
"The Thumb" P=140 Source: SJM guidebook
"North Conejos Peak" P=134 Source: Guidebook
"Purgatory Point" P=120 Source: SJM guidebook
"East North Star Mountain" P=119 Source: Ski guidebook
"The Butterknife" P=116 Source: Ski guidebook
"Black Gendarme" P=114 Source: Roach
"Rockfountain Ridge" P=112 Source: Dave Cooper guidebook
"Rumdoodle Ridge" P=101 Source: Ormes and Houdek Pikes Peak Atlas
"West Babcock Peak" P=99 Source: Guidebook
"Blue Needle" P=92 Source: SJM guidebook
"Fort Peabody" P=91 Source: Guidebook
"Gibraltar Mountain" P=91 Source: Guidebook
"King's Pawn" P=90 Source: Derek Wolfe guidebook
"The Penguin" P=87 Source: SJM guidebook
"The King" P=83 Source: Derek Wolfe guidebook
"Yellow Boy" P=75 Source: USFS signage
"Jackpot Tower" P=71 Source: Guidebook
"The Monolith" P=70 Source: I believe the SJM guidebook?
"Seivers Tower" P=57 Source: Guidebook
"Purple Bastion" P=46 Source: Ormes and Houdek Pikes Peak Atlas
"Mr. Stubbs" P=45 Source: Guidebook
"Little Wasatch Mountain" P=43 Source: SJM guidebook
"Tower One" P=31 Source: Guidebook
"Ceresco Ridge" P=25 Source: Officially named but old summit mined away by Climax Mine
"Tower Two" P=20 Source: Guidebook
"Captain Bivwacko Tower" P=18 Source: Roach
"The Dark Tower" P=9 Source: Guidebook

[arthurtect]

LOJ seems to give a lot of climbing routes the ability to be 'checked off' as a summit. All the crag routes around Twin Sisters in RMNP, for example. There is a large boulder in the middle of the Grey Rock Grand Slam valley that has 20' prominence of the surrounding cow patties.

Personally love LOJ and the ability to find routes to anything below 13K...just know that not all unranked 'points' are 'peak' worthy.

[josephnephi]

"Ceresco Ridge" P=25 Source: Officially named but old summit mined away by Climax Mine

Doing LiDAR for Ceresco was just depressing. It actually gained elevation (and "became" a 13er) because I had to move the summit so far up the ridge to the new USGS label location

[bdloftin77]

"Ceresco Ridge" P=25 Source: Officially named but old summit mined away by Climax Mine

Doing LiDAR for Ceresco was just depressing. It actually gained elevation (and "became" a 13er) because I had to move the summit so far up the ridge to the new USGS label location

Wow, you're right! The BGN page does have the coordinates at the current location now. I wonder if they used to have older coords at the lower, mined away location?
https://edits.nationalmap.gov/apps/gaz- ... ary/179904

Ceresco.png

Ceresco Imagery.png

[hr011242]

There’s some interesting dialogue here!

My 2 cents – Print, historical significance, difficulty, or emotions associated with a cool or historic climb do NOT make something a peak. Peaks that fall below 300’ prominence are notoriously not well-defined and I would personally love it if there were objective criteria we could use to assess whether something was a peak vs a ridge bump vs tower. However trivial that “peak” defining concept might be to some, it’s CLEARLY very important to others as evidenced by this thread, haha.

AND, since these unranked peaks are so poorly defined, I have a hard time saying any current published list is the “source of truth” for these at all. Quite frankly, none of them are. I think we can all agree that there would need to be some removals and lots additions to any of the available unranked lists once somewhat specific, objective criteria could be set… but either way I love that people are talking about these peaks/towers/whatevers and that they are gaining interest, because they are actually really rad (for being shawteez.)

I’m intrigued by Joseph’s comment about adding Jut or RORS as a list metric… that would be an interesting data element to add to the conversation for sure. And on that note, I really appreciate all of the collective contributions to this thread with data, historical references, experiences, etc. Y’all are some damn nerds and I love every last one of you! This is so fun!

And Natalie, I completely agree that adding the unrankeds late in the game made the ranked repeats maybe even more fun than doing the peaks the first time. I seem to be catching a lot of flack for repeating anything these days, but you can bet your @ss that I’m going to keep cherry picking my favorites while exploring new peaks because that’s what I want to do gahdangit! Some of these places are my favorites in memory, and I’d rather go revisit them than tackle every 12er on a list. That’s just me and I’m not hating on anyone who wants to climb the planet, but I digress. I also can’t wait to snowboard down Ski Hayden regardless of its peak or non-peak status because it looks fun!

Sorry for deviating so far beyond your original question, Troy! But thanks for creating space for this discussion even if not fully intended.

Anyways, yahoo for mountains!! (But slinging actual curses to Yahoo Mountain.)

[bdloftin77]

It would be a lot of work, but a list of all 13ers with 200 feet of prominence in CO would be pretty interesting! My guess is that there are ~50 peaks that aren't on 14ers, LoJ, or Peakbagger at all!

I also think that adding Jut or RORS (reduced omnidirectional relief score) as a list metric would be pretty interesting. LoJ has kind of introduced this with the steepness measure, but it's (understandably) not calculated for every peak.

Totally for the RORS. If you ever compile something like that, I'd be extremely interested. Especially if it could be applied to a multitude of CO or other state peaks.
http://www.peaklist.org/spire/

Here's 90 from LoJ that Teresa, John, and I analyzed that don't have any names, peak pages, or any other features other than just a super high LoJ ID, all over 200' of prominence. Only stored just for bookkeeping so we don't accidentally analyze them again. If any 13er baggers are super bored, have at it! I'm not sure if we analyzed everything over map P200, but at least over map P240.

Format is: summit lat, summit lon, ID, prom, ele, saddle lat, saddle lon, saddle ele.

Lat Lon ID Prom Ele sLat sLon sEle
38.73509 -106.31244 1000001 296 13315 38.73605 -106.31040 13019
37.63276 -107.60664 1000000 295 13183 37.63173 -107.60667 12888
37.63249 -107.60652 1000797 295 13183 37.63173 -107.60667 12888
37.86743 -107.65475 1000064 290 13055 37.86289 -107.65012 12765
39.44645 -105.94365 1000068 290 13012 39.45148 -105.94244 12722
37.60593 -107.56240 1000799 281 13120 37.60748 -107.56331 12839
37.95874 -107.41191 1000037 280 13683 37.96128 -107.41543 13403
37.98167 -107.44518 1000812 279 13146 37.97964 -107.44157 12867
38.98494 -106.52164 1000057 277 13186 38.98365 -106.52408 12909
37.59013 -106.98399 1000063 277 13049 37.58525 -106.98277 12772
38.86169 -105.06498 1000054 277 13192 38.85732 -105.06371 12915
37.78785 -107.43944 1000048 272 13301 37.78931 -107.43821 13029
37.87753 -107.62437 1001197 266 13274 37.87955 -107.62462 13008
39.02127 -106.37174 1000649 266 13145 39.02062 -106.37903 12879
39.46874 -106.53824 1000056 265 13220 39.47060 -106.54009 12955
37.07304 -105.22400 1000046 264 13272 37.07177 -105.22161 13008
37.61347 -107.63150 1000049 264 13251 37.61539 -107.63065 12987
39.01513 -106.47037 1000775 264 13695 39.01842 -106.47407 13431
39.02289 -106.96517 1000058 262 13161 39.01975 -106.96483 12899
39.42413 -106.50125 1000062 262 13106 39.42185 -106.50264 12844
37.84612 -107.54062 1000065 259 13047 37.83949 -107.53715 12788
38.91302 -106.35690 1000045 259 13367 38.91088 -106.36435 13108
38.98025 -106.91295 1001585 258 13330 38.97897 -106.91528 13072
37.65963 -107.61351 1000053 257 13216 37.65934 -107.61192 12959
37.98460 -107.51584 1000066 257 13003 37.99842 -107.51701 12746
37.96128 -107.43619 1000042 255 13404 37.96171 -107.42939 13149
37.91728 -105.52834 1000043 253 13354 37.91790 -105.53469 13101
38.96195 -106.75385 1000852 253 13052 38.95865 -106.75334 12799
38.76309 -106.25454 1000040 250 13443 38.75987 -106.25458 13193
39.35746 -106.43022 1000061 250 13083 39.36347 -106.42269 12833
37.81372 -107.59767 1000853 250 13051 37.81052 -107.59755 12801
37.58977 -107.49635 1001172 249 13191 37.59140 -107.49289 12942
38.90755 -106.34627 1001538 249 13300 38.91033 -106.35187 13051
38.99803 -106.59921 1001195 247 13116 38.99579 -106.59794 12869
37.86531 -107.52438 1000050 245 13218 37.86979 -107.52746 12973
38.11204 -107.49524 1000055 244 13191 38.10698 -107.49183 12947
39.10278 -106.47231 1000052 244 13220 39.10105 -106.46948 12976
38.03230 -105.60960 1001074 244 13427 38.02865 -105.60327 13183
37.94970 -106.87958 1000834 244 13505 37.94616 -106.87589 13261
37.81900 -107.81757 1002998 244 13342 37.81667 -107.81954 13098
39.02180 -106.86001 1002992 244 13843 39.02018 -106.86221 13599
37.81864 -107.43264 1001199 243 13085 37.81755 -107.43524 12842
38.17486 -105.70235 1000060 243 13074 38.17656 -105.70528 12831
39.12603 -106.98820 1002995 242 13006 39.12991 -106.98894 12764
37.77214 -107.86462 1000039 241 13474 37.77675 -107.86153 13233
38.90879 -106.33808 1000051 238 13218 38.91176 -106.33299 12980
37.99096 -106.90690 1001196 238 13492 37.99012 -106.90215 13254
39.12833 -106.97063 1002993 238 13085 39.12703 -106.97167 12847
37.69412 -107.50264 1000800 237 13003 37.69727 -107.49816 12766
37.74826 -107.59564 1003001 237 13024 37.75841 -107.60106 12787
38.91320 -106.37564 1000041 236 13468 38.90998 -106.37619 13232
38.66027 -106.31783 1001591 235 13424 38.66339 -106.31924 13189
37.71722 -107.44845 1003007 234 13146 37.71494 -107.45049 12912
39.14554 -107.07439 1000795 233 13072 39.14550 -107.07627 12839
37.89511 -107.50089 1001174 233 13469 37.89821 -107.50418 13236
39.15678 -106.62543 1001201 233 13090 39.16004 -106.63006 12857
37.95867 -106.87812 1000044 231 13353 37.95369 -106.87909 13122
37.98523 -105.61882 1001198 230 13174 37.98464 -105.61664 12944
37.70489 -107.55517 1003005 230 13482 37.70014 -107.55275 13252
38.06735 -105.62721 1001073 228 13017 38.06545 -105.62698 12789
38.03892 -107.53118 1001175 228 13134 38.03944 -107.52868 12906
39.15949 -106.17639 1001355 228 13716 39.16471 -106.17944 13488
37.78629 -107.87991 1001212 228 13263 37.78608 -107.87601 13035
37.96594 -105.57989 1001259 227 13989 37.96602 -105.58147 13762
37.61316 -107.56420 1001200 225 13247 37.61497 -107.56528 13022
39.34807 -106.43457 1002989 224 13045 39.35365 -106.43352 12821
37.86806 -107.77613 1002999 224 13518 37.86765 -107.78046 13294
37.59123 -107.60734 1003003 222 13196 37.59043 -107.60950 12974
37.84705 -107.64498 1000047 222 13263 37.85290 -107.64690 13041
39.68434 -106.23671 1000030 222 13054 39.68650 -106.23468 12832
37.60210 -107.50651 1001173 222 13011 37.60043 -107.50820 12789
39.01736 -106.54682 1001588 222 13124 39.00903 -106.55007 12902
39.00691 -106.86747 1001202 219 13804 39.00783 -106.86660 13585
37.76559 -107.83202 1000038 217 13663 37.76578 -107.82854 13446
38.99401 -106.96520 1001584 217 13044 38.99996 -106.96403 12827
38.12709 -105.69958 1003011 216 13084 38.12853 -105.70201 12868
38.98700 -106.93145 1001586 215 13266 38.98415 -106.93010 13051
39.13452 -106.99433 1002994 214 13046 39.13823 -106.99447 12832
39.12446 -107.04716 1001091 213 13153 39.12411 -107.05258 12940
39.14965 -106.51671 1002987 212 13440 39.15129 -106.51832 13228
37.87375 -107.53650 1001176 211 13308 37.87541 -107.53525 13097
39.12968 -107.08093 1002996 211 13047 39.13047 -107.07862 12836
37.84066 -107.40628 1001177 210 13565 37.84024 -107.41661 13355
39.43985 -106.49412 1002990 210 13633 39.44475 -106.49370 13423
39.38490 -106.13647 1001203 208 13596 39.38771 -106.13729 13388
37.83090 -107.99811 1002608 208 13776 37.83138 -107.99505 13568
37.82663 -107.51681 1000059 207 13091 37.84090 -107.51926 12884
37.87697 -107.81338 1001038 207 13450 37.87669 -107.81055 13243
39.13846 -107.07684 1000794 204 13433 39.14189 -107.08054 13229
39.48851 -106.59230 1002991 201 13049 39.49004 -106.59307 12848
38.94612 -106.50732 1001539 201 13122 38.94168 -106.50609 12921
39.14959 -106.56070 1002988 201 13377 39.14758 -106.56103 13176
37.92582 -106.85682 1002997 198 13787 37.93036 -106.86259 13589
37.79123 -107.59837 1000854 197 13317 37.79293 -107.59951 13120
39.17094 -106.61754 1001178 194 13162 39.17263 -106.61573 12968
39.53833 -105.81783 1001179 190 13216 39.54432 -105.81910 13026
37.65886 -107.59832 1003004 190 13211 37.65768 -107.59743 13021
37.86093 -107.60951 1003002 170 13338 37.85828 -107.61539 13168

[Garrett]

Thanks for posting that Ben. Very cool. I have a similar list but not exactly the same count. So very interested to compare once I have some time.

RORs would be a huge amount of work to determine but could be a great unbiased value. It would be really interesting to see how that looked across the full range of peaks. What a daunting task though!

[SnowAlien]

There’s some interesting dialogue here!

Some of these places are my favorites in memory, and I’d rather go revisit them than tackle every 12er on a list. That’s just me and I’m not hating on anyone who wants to climb the planet, but I digress. I also can’t wait to snowboard down Ski Hayden regardless of its peak or non-peak status because it looks fun!

totally! I'd rather do 13er repeats than dive into a new 12er list. Besides, after closely following KevinB and SarahT shenanigans, some of these 12ers look pretty darn challenging. SkiHayden been on the list for 5 years at least, but we have stopped having winters.

Anyways, yahoo for mountains!! (But slinging actual curses to Yahoo Mountain.)

Darn, y'all are scaring me with this one.