Thank you for letting me know.backcountrybrodes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2026 4:59 pm If I died in the mtns, I wouldn't want to be on this list.
I'll add you to the troll list since your comment is off-topic and not helpful, and quite frankly, I couldn't care less about your opinions. 
I previously defended the concept of this site but I agree that the tone of responses from OP has unfortunately become problematic and does not engender trust that victims and survivors will be respected going forward. It's unfortunate, as I'm still not opposed to the concept if done respectfully, but the recent comments don't inspire confidence.supranihilest wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2026 11:38 am I was lukewarm on this project until your recent spate of tone deaf and insensitive comments. Now? Two thumbs down. Lack of accountability and blame shifting when running a website for such a touchy subject is beyond the pale. I serve on my county's technical rescue team and we see the aftermath of these deaths. There is a real human side to these tragedies and you're treating that humanity with contempt. You say you served on a SAR team yourself, and this is how you react when people give their valid criticism? Sad at best. Show some humility.
This is sage advice. Wisdom. Are we building a statistical database or a memorial to honor those that have passed, as josephnephi pointed out? If to honor those that have passed, to honor them and their lives, an editorial board would be advised. Not a haphazard and ill thought out seemingly thrown together site by an individual. I wouldn't have released a draft to the public, especially so quickly. This gives off a perception opposite of what you claim you'd like to accomplish. Taking time, with accountability, is what is needed for something like this. It seems you are against this idea along with many other words of wisdom and advice that were offered to you, kindly and with respect, by the way. Yet you seemed to have disrespected and shamed them in response. At first I was neutral, giving you the benefit of the doubt. Later, it became apparent that you care more about this so called project than you care about the people you say you're trying to honor. I can't get my head around that. It doesn't sync. A compassionate and kind idea on one hand and rude and callous retorts on the other. Which leads me to believe that you have an ulterior motive behind this. I hope it's not true. I hope your motives are pure. If they are, it seems to me that with humility, you'd take the advice and wisdom given to you by many on this thread. It seems if your motives were truly as pure as you say, you wouldn't care who got credit or who leads this initiative. You would be more reluctant to release drafts so hastily and early on in the process. You'd care more about the outcome and vision of such a memorial where these lives could be remembered and honored in a beautiful, tasteful, and meaningful way.ekalina wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2026 9:02 am
While I didn't state it in my earlier post, this is another reason why having this project depend on a single individual is undesirable. Presumably, if it had been undertaken by a public or private organization, there would be a group of people involved and hopefully they would preemptively come to the conclusion that laughing emojis would be a poor response to the criticism they were receiving. Instead, the success of the current project depends entirely on the personality and decision making of a single person and their ability to convince the community, on balance, that the effort is worthwhile. This is a big ask for any single person to accomplish given the subject matter. I'm not sure you've fully appreciated or anticipated this difficulty.
Joseph summed up the issues very well, quoting to repeat them again.josephnephi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2026 8:42 am I think the reason for many people's objections is that the site is trying to be both a memorial and a useful database. In splitting the difference, it doesn't do either very well.
If you want to make it a memorial, additions should probably only be at the family's request with biographies written by the families that celebrate the life of the deceased. Currently it's usually just a name with a short blurb that feels like it reduces an individual their (often violent) final moments.
If you want to make a database, it has to be useful and somehow prescriptive otherwise it's just morbid.
This is kind of hamstrung by the qualitative nature of a lot of these fatality reports (this isn't really your fault btw). CAIC or UIAA accident reports have a lot more quantitative numbers and are treated a lot more like forensics reports so that future accidents can be avoided. A CAIC report will include things like crown height, time of year, time of day, aspect, etc so that future avalanche reports can more accurately reflect conditions. UIAA reports often focus on modes of failure and how to prevent them in the future. Currently, this database is limited to things like "fall", "lightning", etc which are terribly helpful and don't help develop future models or climbing practices. Looking the website, it does seem like not falling is the best way not to die but that is also fairly obvious to everyone (including probably every single person who died this way). Similarly, we could certainly just ban climbing on all class 3 and 4 peaks and greatly reduce deaths but that would greatly reduce the allure and challenge for many, many people.
Another thing is that expanding the scope to include all people who died near a 14er instead of just actively climbing it kind of erodes the usefulness because a plane crash and a climbing fall are very different.
Further for a database type website, I think including names is kind of unnecessary to the mission and just serves as a painful reminder for those who might feel sad about losing their dad, sister, friend, etc.
I personally understand just wanting to make a database because you can (see my many many spreadsheets) and I commend you effort, but I think keeping it totally anonymous without the blurbs would be more respectful and would probably keep most of the detractors at bay.
+1000CheapCigarMan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2026 5:59 pm
This is sage advice. Wisdom. Are we building a statistical database or a memorial to honor those that have passed, as josephnephi pointed out? If to honor those that have passed, to honor them and their lives, an editorial board would be advised. Not a haphazard and ill thought out seemingly thrown together site by an individual. I wouldn't have released a draft to the public, especially so quickly. This gives off a perception opposite of what you claim you'd like to accomplish. Taking time, with accountability, is what is needed for something like this. It seems you are against this idea along with many other words of wisdom and advice that were offered to you, kindly and with respect, by the way. Yet you seemed to have disrespected and shamed them in response. At first I was neutral, giving you the benefit of the doubt. Later, it became apparent that you care more about this so called project than you care about the people you say you're trying to honor. I can't get my head around that. It doesn't sync. A compassionate and kind idea on one hand and rude and callous retorts on the other. Which leads me to believe that you have an ulterior motive behind this. I hope it's not true. I hope your motives are pure. If they are, it seems to me that with humility, you'd take the advice and wisdom given to you by many on this thread. It seems if your motives were truly as pure as you say, you wouldn't care who got credit or who leads this initiative. You would be more reluctant to release drafts so hastily and early on in the process. You'd care more about the outcome and vision of such a memorial where these lives could be remembered and honored in a beautiful, tasteful, and meaningful way.
The word memorial has many definitions. Perhaps I wasn't clear with MY definition -- which is my mistake. My definition is to create a historical record -- which is one of the definitions of to memorialize. With that said, I'm only allowing publicly available information and not opinions. I've had to remove a few opinions that might tarnish the reputation of the deceased. Keep in mind that 90% of the content has been submitted by members of the 14ers forum and not by me. I will not allow anyone's death or memory to be tarnished. I will allow public records, personal accounts, and any comments from those who were personally touched by the deceased.CheapCigarMan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2026 5:59 pm Are we building a statistical database or a memorial to honor those that have passed
That was more directed at your defensiveness at genuine and heartfelt feedback from other forum members expressing concern about this project.
That’s hilarious!!!!
(the em-dash can be typed on a keyboard by Win+Shift+hyphen: —).
This is uncalled for, snide, and rude.
