Mapping Apps / Devices

[mgl45]

This is an offshoot from the Garmin thread, it's more related to navigation and mapping in general, so figured it best to post new topic.

I've been using Alltrails Pro for my navigation / mapping. I was unfamiliar with Peakbagger but somebody mentioned it in the Garmin thread so I checked that out.

It looks to me like both Alltrails and Peakbagger show topo maps, support downloads for offline use, one advantage of Peakbagger is that it is free and one advantage of Alltrails that jumps out at me is that it shows other trails, even ones you are not on (or didn't start on), which I've though was useful when going offtrail because if I got lost I could look at the map and determine heading that would get me back to a trail.

But as I'm new to peakbagger I'm not sure if I'm missing anything.

Can anyone think of any advantages to Peakbagger over Alltrails?

Can anyone think of any advantages to the maps accessible via the Garmin InReach Explorer+ over Alltrails?


Thanks!

[TomPierce]

I just use the map that comes with the Inreach device, but many others are out there. Backcountry Navigator and Gaia come to mind, I've tried both. They just didn't offer any features that I really found useful and a pet peeve that I raised a few years ago with Gaia (unsuccessfully) was the size of the "you are here" arrow marker. I found it hard to find in bright sunshine, apparently the size of the marker/icon can't be increased to make it more visible. Not a huge deal, just annoying, maybe that's been fixed.

That aside, the Garmin map is fine for how I navigate. About...75%+? of what I do in the backcountry is off trail. So trails/numbers/junctions aren't useful, and the terrain topo features are good enough with the Garmin map. I just want a sense of steepness, that's all. Most of my initial navigation is done at home with satellite imagery (photos), e.g. I want to approach a certain formation and need to see if there is a ledge system connecting canyons, etc. I've gotten OK (maybe accurate 60% of the time?) at figuring out where sheer cliffs are, often tough to guess that when looking from above at a satellite photo. So once I think I have a route I just drop in waypoints along a proposed route and have at it, knowing the exact route will be decided in the moment once I'm on the ground. For that the Garmin map and GPS is more than adequate.

-Tom

[k_fergie]

Caltopo is life, all else are inferior. JK. But caltopo is by far the best in my opinion. I think its $20/year to get everything in a downloadable format. All sorts of custom shading, polygons, GPX features and tons of layers including satellite and aerial imagery, much more functionality for mountaineering/skiing than anything else I've used.

[yaktoleft13]

I just use the map that comes with the Inreach device, but many others are out there. Backcountry Navigator and Gaia come to mind, I've tried both. They just didn't offer any features that I really found useful and a pet peeve that I raised a few years ago with Gaia (unsuccessfully) was the size of the "you are here" arrow marker. I found it hard to find in bright sunshine, apparently the size of the marker/icon can't be increased to make it more visible. Not a huge deal, just annoying, maybe that's been fixed.

That aside, the Garmin map is fine for how I navigate. About...75%+? of what I do in the backcountry is off trail. So trails/numbers/junctions aren't useful, and the terrain topo features are good enough with the Garmin map. I just want a sense of steepness, that's all. Most of my initial navigation is done at home with satellite imagery (photos), e.g. I want to approach a certain formation and need to see if there is a ledge system connecting canyons, etc. I've gotten OK (maybe accurate 60% of the time?) at figuring out where sheer cliffs are, often tough to guess that when looking from above at a satellite photo. So once I think I have a route I just drop in waypoints along a proposed route and have at it, knowing the exact route will be decided in the moment once I'm on the ground. For that the Garmin map and GPS is more than adequate.

-Tom

On a related but also unrelated note, I can't seem to get the navigation on my Inreach to work. Whenever i select a route from "navigate", I just get a an arrow and a distance. No line, no track, no route. Just a direction and a number. I'm sure it's operator error, but would love this operator to stop erring

[mgl45]

Caltopo is life, all else are inferior. JK. But caltopo is by far the best in my opinion. I think its $20/year to get everything in a downloadable format. All sorts of custom shading, polygons, GPX features and tons of layers including satellite and aerial imagery, much more functionality for mountaineering/skiing than anything else I've used.

Thanks for the reply!

I love Caltopo! I didn't realize there was a subscription/download option.

With downloaded maps on Caltopo do you know if it tracks your GPS position on the map?

[mgl45]

I just use the map that comes with the Inreach device, but many others are out there. Backcountry Navigator and Gaia come to mind, I've tried both. They just didn't offer any features that I really found useful and a pet peeve that I raised a few years ago with Gaia (unsuccessfully) was the size of the "you are here" arrow marker. I found it hard to find in bright sunshine, apparently the size of the marker/icon can't be increased to make it more visible. Not a huge deal, just annoying, maybe that's been fixed.

That aside, the Garmin map is fine for how I navigate. About...75%+? of what I do in the backcountry is off trail. So trails/numbers/junctions aren't useful, and the terrain topo features are good enough with the Garmin map. I just want a sense of steepness, that's all. Most of my initial navigation is done at home with satellite imagery (photos), e.g. I want to approach a certain formation and need to see if there is a ledge system connecting canyons, etc. I've gotten OK (maybe accurate 60% of the time?) at figuring out where sheer cliffs are, often tough to guess that when looking from above at a satellite photo. So once I think I have a route I just drop in waypoints along a proposed route and have at it, knowing the exact route will be decided in the moment once I'm on the ground. For that the Garmin map and GPS is more than adequate.

-Tom

Thanks for the reply and perspective!

Does your Garmin InReach map show your GPS position on the map?

[k_fergie]

Caltopo is life, all else are inferior. JK. But caltopo is by far the best in my opinion. I think its $20/year to get everything in a downloadable format. All sorts of custom shading, polygons, GPX features and tons of layers including satellite and aerial imagery, much more functionality for mountaineering/skiing than anything else I've used.

Thanks for the reply!

I love Caltopo! I didn't realize there was a subscription/download option.

With downloaded maps on Caltopo do you know if it tracks your GPS position on the map?

Yeah you can see your location by pressing the little button thing in the lower right hand corner when in their Android app. I believe that you can also lay down GPX tracks while doing this. I don't use that feature because I found it buggy when in battery saver mode on their beta version of the app a couple years ago. Could have improved by now, my dad uses the feature sometimes and hasn't mentioned it to me.

[seano]

Caltopo is life, all else are inferior.

Caltopo is indeed great, and its business model is aligned with your interests: you pay them for the best tool they can create to navigate the wilderness.

That said, you should consider what you want, and what data your app uses. For a mix of offline automatic route-planning and topo maps, I use Organic Maps and Peakbagger. The first can do bizarre things, but the OpenStreetMap data it uses is shockingly up-to-date about most of the world. The second will give you pretty good topos almost anywhere.

[TomPierce]

I just use the map that comes with the Inreach device, but many others are out there. Backcountry Navigator and Gaia come to mind, I've tried both. They just didn't offer any features that I really found useful and a pet peeve that I raised a few years ago with Gaia (unsuccessfully) was the size of the "you are here" arrow marker. I found it hard to find in bright sunshine, apparently the size of the marker/icon can't be increased to make it more visible. Not a huge deal, just annoying, maybe that's been fixed.

That aside, the Garmin map is fine for how I navigate. About...75%+? of what I do in the backcountry is off trail. So trails/numbers/junctions aren't useful, and the terrain topo features are good enough with the Garmin map. I just want a sense of steepness, that's all. Most of my initial navigation is done at home with satellite imagery (photos), e.g. I want to approach a certain formation and need to see if there is a ledge system connecting canyons, etc. I've gotten OK (maybe accurate 60% of the time?) at figuring out where sheer cliffs are, often tough to guess that when looking from above at a satellite photo. So once I think I have a route I just drop in waypoints along a proposed route and have at it, knowing the exact route will be decided in the moment once I'm on the ground. For that the Garmin map and GPS is more than adequate.

-Tom

Thanks for the reply and perspective!

Does your Garmin InReach map show your GPS position on the map?

Yes. On the map there is a "you are here" icon. You can also pull up your lat/lon coordinates, but I don't ever recall needing to do so.

[mgl45]

Thanks everyone for your replies!

In thinking about how much your intended use affects which app is better, this question comes to my mind:

Of all the apps, devices etc. which one (or ones) would you want to have if you were lost in connection with mountaineering trip?
(understanding of course that one should have a paper map and compass as backup)

[daway8]

Of all the apps, devices etc. which one (or ones) would you want to have if you were lost in connection with mountaineering trip?
(understanding of course that one should have a paper map and compass as backup)

GAIA app on my phone is what I use everytime I get lost (eh-hem, I mean temporarily off course). Love the slope angle overlay for winter climbs to help quickly confirm/deny my instincts on how steep a slope is (aka how likely it is that I'm about to die if I step out on that slope, lol)

With the paid version there are literally hundreds of overlays and maps to show everything from satellite views, old obscure trails, snow depth, avy forecast, etc, etc.

I can preload a GPX so I can see at any given moment where I'm at in relation to the trail and also turn on tracking so at any point, even in near whiteout conditions when the wind has blown away my tracks I can safely backtrack (not that I intentionally do that often but it has happened).

For my InReach, I've not found a slope angle overlay, you have to resize GPX tracks to import them and I seem to recall it not recording quite as fine of detail in terms of recording a track of where you've hiked so far but it still got the job done. Screen on the device is too small for my taste by linking it to the phone solves that, however if I'm using my phone anyways why not just use the phone by itself in airplane mode with wi-fi and Bluetooth off to conserve battery.

But if I fall and bang my head and get all disoriented it's good to know (and reassuring for family/friends to know) that I have a button I could hit if serious trouble ever catches up to me.

[TomPierce]

Thanks everyone for your replies!

In thinking about how much your intended use affects which app is better, this question comes to my mind:

Of all the apps, devices etc. which one (or ones) would you want to have if you were lost in connection with mountaineering trip?
(understanding of course that one should have a paper map and compass as backup)

I too have on rare occasions been temporarily lost, off trail routefinding errors (e.g. descended into the wrong valley) on moonless nights in thick forests, when tired etc. But look at the GPS, get a position fix and correct the error, on your way. My advice is to try and sample a few apps, many have no or low cost basic options that allow such "kick the tires" testing. That's how I found out that most mapping apps IMO just clutter things with too much detail or unnecessary features. When things hit the fan, e.g. you're lost late at night when offtrail and solo with no visible landmarks, you're probably going to be a bit more stressed than normal. In such situations I value simplicity and reliability above all else. E.g. exactly where are you, exactly where is your car/camp? I like the Garmin maps because they don't have a lot of detail or features. I just need some basic info, esp if I'm tired and/or stressed. Works for me, but others prefer lots of detail and features. Test a few a decide what you prefer.

Besides I've already downloaded the Garmin app to allow pairing, so using their map seemed idiot-proof. Just me.

-Tom