Mountaineering Ethics

[pw]

How much responsibility do you have for another person? I'd say more than this person showed. Also covered in the NYT, but I don't have access to that.

https://www.denvergazette.com/outtherec ... e_vignette

[Dave B]

Seems less an issue of mountaineering ethics, and more an issue of not being a s**t human being.

But, being a s**t human being seems kind of en vogue right now, so <shrug>.

[JSFromKY]

The case hinges on the boyfriend being considered the ‘responsible guide’ of the tour given the skill gap between the two, with prosecutors claiming that it was negligent for the woman to be brought on the trek.

Gee, kinda sounds like a couple of incidents on Holy Cross and Capitol if you ask me. Though on Capitol, he died too.

[markf]

Here's The NY Times article, should be paywall free https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/20/worl ... =url-share

This has been discussed over on Mountain Project; both parties seem to have made some pretty questionable decisions (split board and snowboard boots, late start, failure to turn around).

[greenonion]

Right here in Utah a similar thing happened recently involving a dad and three of his own kids. One has to wonder what he was really intending. I’ve hiked that peak a couple of times and can’t imagine AT ALL taking children on that one, much less a two year old…

https://www.ksl.com/article/51411042/ex ... n-a-rescue

[Ed_Groves]

Right here in Utah a similar thing happened recently involving a dad and three of his own kids. One has to wonder what he was really intending. I’ve hiked that peak a couple of times and can’t imagine AT ALL taking children on that one, much less a two year old…

https://www.ksl.com/article/51411042/ex ... n-a-rescue

Wow! What a story, Stu.

At a minimum, our responsibility for the lives of others should exceed our desire to reach the summit. I can't imagine what would possess any parent to put their children's lives in danger just to reach the apex of a peak. Any time I take family members into wilderness I always err on the side of safety. I couldn't live with myself if I led any of them to be harmed. And the guy in Austria made a number of irresponsible decisions as well.

It doesn't just apply to family. If anyone is injured on a mountain, proper etiquette would be to help them get out of danger if one is in a position to assist. Even if a hiker has fallen into an area that exceeds one's abilities, he or she can still call SAR and stay close by. I haven't encountered a situation where someone outside of my hiking party needed help from me, but I believe I would respond in a helpful manner.

[climbingcue]

Right here in Utah a similar thing happened recently involving a dad and three of his own kids. One has to wonder what he was really intending. I’ve hiked that peak a couple of times and can’t imagine AT ALL taking children on that one, much less a two year old…

https://www.ksl.com/article/51411042/ex ... n-a-rescue

That is the craziest story I have every read about a parent taking their kids hiking. He should be in jail for a lifetime after his actions.

[masonzastrow]

That is the craziest story I have every read about a parent taking their kids hiking. He should be in jail for a lifetime after his actions.

Just imagine the stuff that doesn't get reported on...

When I was on Capitol, my partner and I ran into a kid, probably about 15, who was alone at the start of the knife edge. Apparently his friend and the friend's dad went across first but when this kid got spooked and turned around halfway across, those two just kept going. He joined up with my partner and I and we met the friend and the dad on the summit. This was just the kid's second high peak, Sorpis was his first if I remember right. So if the expectation was that he'd meet the others on the summit by progressing solo, I have no clue how any responsible adult could think he'd be able to route find competently beyond the knife edge. He was clearly uncomfortable navigating, although he was a good climber. And if the expectation was that he'd hang around K2 until the others returned to him, that's putting a hell of a lot of trust in the patience and decision-making of a teenager. If we weren't 2,500 feet above Capitol Lake, I would've yelled at the friend's dad until my throat was sore.

Plenty of bad decisions go unnoticed because fate rolled in the gambler's favor.

[Istoodupthere]

Passed a guy on Sneffles carrying his maybe 2 year old child on his shoulders up the steep, loose gully above Lavendar Col. No helmets

[greenonion]

That is the craziest story I have every read about a parent taking their kids hiking. He should be in jail for a lifetime after his actions.

Just imagine the stuff that doesn't get reported on...

When I was on Capitol, my partner and I ran into a kid, probably about 15, who was alone at the start of the knife edge. Apparently his friend and the friend's dad went across first but when this kid got spooked and turned around halfway across, those two just kept going. He joined up with my partner and I and we met the friend and the dad on the summit. This was just the kid's second high peak, Sorpis was his first if I remember right. So if the expectation was that he'd meet the others on the summit by progressing solo, I have no clue how any responsible adult could think he'd be able to route find competently beyond the knife edge. He was clearly uncomfortable navigating, although he was a good climber. And if the expectation was that he'd hang around K2 until the others returned to him, that's putting a hell of a lot of trust in the patience and decision-making of a teenager. If we weren't 2,500 feet above Capitol Lake, I would've yelled at the friend's dad until my throat was sore.

Plenty of bad decisions go unnoticed because fate rolled in the gambler's favor.

The friend’s dad would have been livid if that were turned around and HIS son was left behind. What an genuine a**hole he is to leave someone else’s kid behind

Really well put (your post) btw.

[blazintoes]

Hard not to notice the contrast lately. Sunseri cuts a corner chasing an FKT and gets pardoned, while a dad rescued with his kids in Big Cottonwood is facing serious charges, and an Austrian climber is charged after leaving his partner behind. Same mountains, wildly different judgments. Feels less about terrain and more about where the line gets drawn.

Strip the courts away and it comes back to ethics. FKTs are simple: stay on route or the style doesn’t count. Shortcutting doesn’t make you a villain, but it does invalidate the effort. A pardon doesn’t change that. Kids are different — they can’t consent, so the responsibility bar is higher whether the intentions are good or not. I’ve watched a grown man push a sobbing six-year-old up King Peak because it was “only” 200 feet left. To her, it was Everest.

And the hardest question never changes: do you leave a partner behind? We’ve seen it in Austria and on Holy Cross. When you move together, there’s an implied pact. I’ve been left behind and I’ve also parted ways by agreement — and even when it’s mutual, it’s a slippery slope. Conditions change fast, clarity fades, and decisions age quickly. Style, consent, and responsibility aren’t abstract up there. You usually only understand them after you’ve lived them.

[nyker]

Hard not to notice the contrast lately. Sunseri cuts a corner chasing an FKT and gets pardoned, while a dad rescued with his kids in Big Cottonwood is facing serious charges, and an Austrian climber is charged after leaving his partner behind. Same mountains, wildly different judgments. Feels less about terrain and more about where the line gets drawn.

Strip the courts away and it comes back to ethics. FKTs are simple: stay on route or the style doesn’t count. Shortcutting doesn’t make you a villain, but it does invalidate the effort. A pardon doesn’t change that. Kids are different — they can’t consent, so the responsibility bar is higher whether the intentions are good or not. I’ve watched a grown man push a sobbing six-year-old up King Peak because it was “only” 200 feet left. To her, it was Everest.

And the hardest question never changes: do you leave a partner behind? We’ve seen it in Austria and on Holy Cross. When you move together, there’s an implied pact. I’ve been left behind and I’ve also parted ways by agreement — and even when it’s mutual, it’s a slippery slope. Conditions change fast, clarity fades, and decisions age quickly. Style, consent, and responsibility aren’t abstract up there. You usually only understand them after you’ve lived them.

Cutting a switchback to get credit for a FKT vs. an inexperienced hiker dying as a result of being left behind in the dark on a technical peak in winter are two different circumstances that warrant different responses, though not saying the FKT'er should be let off the hook; maybe forced to do a year of trail work as community service and not get that FKT count, whereas the latter could be criminally responsible.

But yea to the your other point of leaving someone behind, it depends on situation and climbers. On a straightforward or a shorter, easy trail, in sight of trailhead or with dozens of climbers around, maybe not the end of the world if it's done under agreement together. I've turned around on climbs or stayed back to go slower when others continued on - I don't fault anyone, was my decision and I was not ill or injured but just wasn't feeling it, or didn't feel comfortable, felt tired, weather came in etc. or wanted to do more photography around the area and felt I could get back to the TH. People committed time, money, vacation days, days of travel to get there and I wasn't going to ask them to abandon their plans for me, I get it. Had it worked out differently, maybe it would be a news topic people arguing about but it didn't.

I've turned around on several hikes when someone was not feeling it for whatever reason and didn't seem wise to separate for whatever reason and we went back together, in some cases with them waiting in the car or just going home. On other hikes, I've had folks say they wanted to stop and wait for me to return, when they didn't want to go on but were not ill or injured - on an easier day hike, sometimes it seemed fine, a low risk option on easier terrain, clear forecast, lower elevations, experienced hiker with proper gear, clear trail etc. In situations where conditions are tougher then probably not a good idea to separate. On a longer trip, technical climb, colder weather, snow, in the dark, questionable weather, then would stay together and/or turn around. Now all the above situations were where we started out together on a planned trip. Another more thornier question is when you meet up with a hiker, previously unknown to you but where you then start hiking together, where THEN something happens where they may not want to continue...