A Philosophical Discussion, Need Input

[LifeIsGood]

PART 1 (of a 2-part post)

(To Moderators: this thread may eventually go completely off the rails, so feel free to delete it at any time, I won’t mind.)

Please everyone share your thoughts on any of the following concepts, or add more, but be forewarned that if anyone tries to dispute that mankind evolved from apes, they may be laughed off of the forum.

First, to touch upon a few topics that can be thought-provoking:

A) TAKING RISKS
Some people simply cannot comprehend how we can justify the “unnecessary risks” involved in pursuits such as rock climbing, skiing, and mountaineering. To them, the shortest response that I could give is, the risks are not as great as they might assume, and we feel that the risks are worth the rewards, though the rewards are admittedly somewhat difficult to convey in words.

B) DISCONNECTING FROM SOCIETY, CIVILIZATION, & TECHNOLOGY
Spending time in wild places can provide an essential break from the many sources of stress in our daily lives. If we spend an extended time camping in a remote area, completely devoid of other people, we can put out of mind the many problems that humanity faces, such as crime, poverty/hunger, war, death, disease, and natural disasters.

C) RECONNECTING WITH THE NATURAL WORLD
Spending time in wild places can provide an essential opportunity to re-establish a feeling of being part of the world around us, our Mother Earth, rather than just standing on it. Maybe some barefoot hikers can chime in here.

D) RENEWING OUR NATURAL INSTINCTS
Spending multiple days or weeks in the wilderness can lead to a heightened state of awareness. It can become habitual to always be alert to every sound, to watch out for danger, to be constantly on the lookout for beautiful wildlife, and to closely monitor the weather. And doesn’t food taste so much better in the wilderness?

Some theorize that humans are basically domesticated animals (as an unintentional result of many generations being born and raised in a controlled, versus wild, environment).

The famous Italian alpinist Reinhold Messner wrote of a “Sixth Sense” that can emerge, which he described as a “Mountain Sense” that can keep us safe if we learn to listen to it.

E) GAINING A FEELING OF SATISFACTION & FULFILLMENT
Sometimes people ask us questions such as, “Why climb mountains?” We may answer, “Because it is there,” rather than try to put in to words the special and invaluable feeling of fulfillment that we gain.

[LifeIsGood]

PART 2 (of a 2-part post)

I am also very interested in others thoughts regarding the most basic and fundamental questions that mankind has pondered for centuries: “Why are we here?” and “Why does the Universe exist?”

The most scientifically-minded among us can provide mountains of data about HOW we came to be here, but seem unable to explain WHY? Apparently there simply is no answer.

They tell us about the Big Bang, which took place about 14 billion years ago, about the various Laws of Physics, about the history of the Universe, and the history of the Earth over the past 4 billion years.

They can even tell us how life began on Earth 1 billion years ago, and how it became increasingly complex through the process of Evolution, with Humans appearing just 300,000 years ago.

But if we ask, “Why did that dense little ball of energy exist in the first place?” the only answer is, “It just did.”

“Why did it explode?” “It just did.”

“Why do the Laws of Physics exist?” “They just do.”

“Why did lifeforms emerge from non-living substances?” “It just did.”

“Why does life become increasingly complex?” “It just does.”

IN SUMMARY, these answers are deeply unsatisfying. When we wish to understand why each of us is here, programmed to stay alive and reproduce, how can I be content with answering myself, “I just am.”

At least we still have wild places to roam free, where we actually have the time, and peace & quiet, free of distraction, to contemplate these questions.

[Kiefer]

Did winter just return????

[justiner]

Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.

[cottonmountaineering]

pt1- ok some cool thoughts

In pt 2 every question you answer "it just did" has a scientific explanation or theory which you chose to ignore. let's take one of the core discussion points here as an example, "“Why did lifeforms emerge from non-living substances?” “It just did.”"

If you even spent a moment on google, you could come up with this article illustrating much of the scientific research on the subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
The answer is NOT "it just did" - this is only your own ignorance or choice to put faith over science.

your conclusion "IN SUMMARY, these answers are deeply unsatisfying" - this conclusion has nothing to do with the reality, perhaps you should think about that instead. why is it unsatisfying to you? What is the point in knowing why we are here? why does reality disappoint you? Do you realize most people live fulfilling, happy lives without knowing the definitive answer to this question?

personally, i find the fact that my existence (and life in general) being pointless to be a relief, i find the science behind the beginning of the universe fascinating, as well as the laws of physics, and am deeply grateful humans have evolved to the point of understanding it. I am also deeply satisfied that i can create my own purpose, given the above.

[LifeIsGood]

If you even spent a moment on google, you could come up with this article illustrating much of the scientific research on the subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
The answer is NOT "it just did"

Okay, I am currently wading through this data, but would like to reiterate my point that it is going to help answer HOW life arose on Earth, but not WHY?

[LifeIsGood]

I am also deeply satisfied that i can create my own purpose

Best contribution so far! (not sarcasm)

Keep them coming!

[seannunn]

I will comment on the "risks" aspect.
Climbing mountains involves risk.
If a person does a good job mitigating those risks (staying within their skill set, climbing with others, not climbing in lightning storms, etc.) then those risks can be reduced, but never entirely eliminated.
I think that everyone has a personal level of risk that they are comfortable with, and that level is different for everyone. (Personally mine is pretty low.)
So you have to weigh the risk vs. the reward. In the mountains that I choose to climb, I judge my (low level) risk as being worth the benefits that I get (some of which you have detailed already).

Also, keep in mind that everything in life entails risk. Lying on your couch all day doing nothing decreases your risk of being killed by wild animals or lightning, but substantially increases your risk of dying from a heart attack, stroke, class 2 diabetes, Alzheimer's, etc.

Sean Nunn
Peculiar, MO

[seannunn]

I chose to put this in a separate post in case it gets banned.

The Christian answer to your question: "why are we here?" is that we are here to bring glory and honor to God.
Obviously not everyone agrees with this, and some people don't believe that God even exists.
I won't fight that battle on a mountain climbing website.
I am just telling you what the Christian answer to your question is.

Sean Nunn
Peculiar, MO

[LifeIsGood]

everything in life entails risk

Thank you for your contribution, Sean, and I want to highlight this specific point, because it is common for people to criticize rock climbers and mountaineers, as if they are reckless, but nearly everyone takes on some kind of risks on a daily basis, with an obvious example being traveling in a vehicle at high speeds, just inches away from other vehicles, and becoming so accustomed to this that they don’t even feel any fear.

[hellmanm]

Y'know, in an age of AI slop, it's unhinged posts like this that keep me confident we have humans behind our usernames

But, regarding your original Q: you're not going to find your answers here. From a biological standpoint, we feel how we do in the mountains (and otherwise) because those traits have been favorably selected over time. You know this, though, so I won't belabor the point.

Unfortunately, though, the "why" question is deeply personal, and you're not going to find a reason to be content with "I just am" from strangers online. You'll find camaraderie in shared experiences and feelings, since we all wander up these big hills and evidently share a passion for suffering, but this sort of resolution goes deeper. And I get it; that's a sobering truth with which to come to terms. But, it's true. You'll find contentment in a way that suits you, and you can take solace in the fact that however you get there, it's uniquely yours.

For me... I don't need to know why I 'm here. I do know why I like to hike. I don't know my life's purpose. But, I'm happy in the mountains even with some of those questions unanswered. Maybe that'll work for you too. GL out there, and like maybe consider shorter posts tho

[LifeIsGood]

You'll find contentment in a way that suits you, and you can take solace in the fact that however you get there, it's uniquely yours.

Great response, and this particular sentence seems quite useful and rather profound.

Honestly, this thread is going far better than expected so far!