The Decalibron 14ers Are Closing Again

[astranko]

All of the landowners working with us....

Sorry if I missed this, but, who is "US,"
Are you a member or staff of an organization that is working on this?
Or is 'us' just a general term for all of us who are interested in this?

Thanks
Joel

I'm participating in the coalition as a CMC member and volunteer, and as a representative of my own org, The Next Summit; Both organizations are part of the broader coalition of 32-ish groups endorsing the bill (the number keeps rising). The CMC's Conservation Staff have played a central role as a convener and coalition-builder; their team is really to thank for keeping it alive and putting in the legwork. I helped with some initial policy research on the issue, and now I've been tasked with updating online communities impacted by the issue and starting some initial grassroots organizing work for future initiatives.

Who works for you "org" but you? Because when I look on your website it seems like it's just you. You're the only person listed or shown on the site, the contact email address, etc.

It also appears to be a profit-generating enterprise.... for you.

CMC member and volunteer is also just... something anyone can do? You have to pay to do it, even.

[Ptglhs]

It's very simple.....just follow along.

1. You didn't buy it
2. It's not yours
3. It is irrelevant what the owner does with it and it's none of your business
4.The use of the word "should" usually indicates the sense of entitlement

I know what you want but you can't have it..so deal with it (but that's not you now is it?)

It's very simple... Just follow along.

Land isn't something we can buy from someone who makes, produces, or grows it, so the whole question of land ownership is meaningless. When we buy land we are buying something imaginary and human defined. If enough people think the definition is meaningless, it becomes meaningless.

Land exists before, after, and apart from us. It's ours just as much as water, air, sunlight are or are not ours.

Land which isn't being used by a human is not subject to claims of harm if another walks across it

It's relevant if someone else is doing something immoral, hurtful, and unethical

You could try not being insulting and actually engage with ideas (but that's not you, is it?)

[amderr22]

Sorry if I missed this, but, who is "US,"
Are you a member or staff of an organization that is working on this?
Or is 'us' just a general term for all of us who are interested in this?

Thanks
Joel

I'm participating in the coalition as a CMC member and volunteer, and as a representative of my own org, The Next Summit; Both organizations are part of the broader coalition of 32-ish groups endorsing the bill (the number keeps rising). The CMC's Conservation Staff have played a central role as a convener and coalition-builder; their team is really to thank for keeping it alive and putting in the legwork. I helped with some initial policy research on the issue, and now I've been tasked with updating online communities impacted by the issue and starting some initial grassroots organizing work for future initiatives.

Who works for you "org" but you? Because when I look on your website it seems like it's just you. You're the only person listed or shown on the site, the contact email address, etc.

It also appears to be a profit-generating enterprise.... for you.

CMC member and volunteer is also just... something anyone can do? You have to pay to do it, even.

Hi there! - I don't think we've met.

The Next Summit is a single-member LLC - just like 14ers.com.

We have 42 due-paying supporters who fund our work and help direct our strategy as members of our Advisory Committee. I started the group a few years after hiking Longs Peak and watching dozens of people hike into a thunderstorm with no idea they were in danger. I got home and came up with a unique idea - to use digital advertising revenue to fund education and outreach work. Instead of starting a blogging business and doing the whole crappy Digital Nomade life that doesn't really help anyone or solve any problems, I decided to use the same revenue-model to fund mountain safety and education programming, public awareness campaigns, and policy advocacy efforts.

By relying on ad revenue instead of having to constantly solicit new donations, we spend a lot less time fundraising and a lot more time actually doing programming and sharing info:

1. We host free educational webinars with community partners like the Alpine Rescue Team, Trust for Public Land, and Colorado Avalanche Information Center; our next is with the Colorado Mountain Club next month. Past topics include wilderness survival, avalanche safety, and navigating with maps and compass. Over 700 have signed up and 200+ have attended this year.

2. We conduct free research for the outdoor community: for example, I did about four months-worth of research for the CMC on the liability issues threatening access and testified to share it with the Senate - and we're several of our members and I will be conducting 14er visitor survey this summer at several trailheads to help collect and share hiker data with groups like CFI.

3. We are launching another new program at the end of this month that I am particularly excited about: a Leave No Trace Public ad campaign designed in partnership with the LNT Center in Boulder. We're providing funding to share ads with priority tips and messaging that they provided. We expect to spend about $4,000 this year on ads that teach conservation practices.

4. Lastly, we donate 5% of our revenue directly to our partners in the field at the end of each year, like the Fourteeners Initiative, Search and Rescue Association, and the Leave No Trace Center. Any remaining funds go to pay for web hosting, webinar and email software, insurance, and taxes, and as we grow we allocate more to our public education ad campaigns.

We are probably going to start another ad campaign - if we raise enough revenue - focused specifically on the 14er closure, to apply more pressure on the key votes involved in re-securing public access, as few of the other groups involved have funds to spare for such outreach.

We're small but I hope to formalize as a non-profit with the help of a professor of mine with experience starting them by the end of the year - at which point you can pour over all our disclosure reports for yourself.

As for the CMC - I'm proud to be a volunteer with their Conservation Department. Anyone can sign up to volunteer, and I encourage them to - but sadly, few do - especially those with policy research and advocacy experience (I've got a Master's Degree in Environmental Policy, Management, and Law).

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by attacking people for volunteering to support 14er public access, but you do you.

[painless4u2]

Long story short, it appears (at least to me) to be a case of the Colorado Trial Lawyers Association vs everyone else. (And to an extent, the three Democratic Senators which they lobbied against everyone else.)
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm surprised that there aren't more posts directly mentioning them despite a plethora of posts already.

Maybe those of you mentioning the idea of a protest with mountaineering gear by the Capitol should consider a different venue, especially in the context (as I understand from some posts here) of protests at the Capitol being a near daily occurrence and producing little but background noise.

Textbook case of politics by special interests for special interests against We The People.

It's because there are folks like mtn_hound who scream "YOU"RE STUPID" for stating the obvious (as seen on a similar thread on Lindsey). Some people will never accept the truth, even when it stares them in the face. Especially if it counters their idea of a Utopian Democrat Nation. Go figure.

[BillMiddlebrook]

The Next Summit is a single-member LLC - just like 14ers.com.

FYI
14ers Inc., d.b.a 14ers.com is not an LLC, it's an S-Corporation. And it's not "single member," I just do most of the work.

[daway8]

Who works for you "org" but you? Because when I look on your website it seems like it's just you. You're the only person listed or shown on the site, the contact email address, etc.

It also appears to be a profit-generating enterprise.... for you.

CMC member and volunteer is also just... something anyone can do? You have to pay to do it, even.

Hi there! - I don't think we've met.

The Next Summit is a single-member LLC - just like 14ers.com.
...
I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by attacking people for volunteering to support 14er public access, but you do you.

Well if you come to the next Fort Collins Happy Hour you can meet him in person - he's been putting them together. Generally a pleasant outgoing guy - not sure if he stubbed his toe before writing this or what...

Anyways, I'm glad to see you each doing things in your own way to benefit the 14ers community.

**We now return you to our regularly scheduled online feuding**
Carry on...

[GuiGirard]

Alex, what is the entire list of 14ers that involve private access? So far I have:
- Lindsey
- Culebra
- Democrat
- Lincoln
- Bross
- Sherman

What's the deal with Kit Carson (and Challenger) these days?

My topo map (the Sangre de Cristo Nat Geo map, which edition I forgot, but one I bought <10 years ago) shows them as entirely on private land.
The private land - NF boundary runs pretty much parallel to the Willow Lake trail, to its South (with the lake, trail and TH being entirely on NF land and wilderness) then, to the East of Kit Carson summit it takes a 90 degree turn to the South and runs near the summit of Columbia. I was going to snap a picture of that map at home last night but sure enough I forgot.

[JacobW]

What's the deal with Kit Carson (and Challenger) these days?

My topo map (the Sangre de Cristo Nat Geo map, which edition I forgot, but one I bought <10 years ago) shows them as entirely on private land.
The private land - NF boundary runs pretty much parallel to the Willow Lake trail, to its South (with the lake, trail and TH being entirely on NF land and wilderness) then, to the East of Kit Carson summit it takes a 90 degree turn to the South and runs near the summit of Columbia. I was going to snap a picture of that map at home last night but sure enough I forgot.

According to Caltopo, that's all national forest and wilderness above the Willow Creek TH.

Capture.JPG

[GuiGirard]

Long story short, it appears (at least to me) to be a case of the Colorado Trial Lawyers Association vs everyone else. (And to an extent, the three Democratic Senators which they lobbied against everyone else.)
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm surprised that there aren't more posts directly mentioning them despite a plethora of posts already.

Maybe those of you mentioning the idea of a protest with mountaineering gear by the Capitol should consider a different venue, especially in the context (as I understand from some posts here) of protests at the Capitol being a near daily occurrence and producing little but background noise.

Textbook case of politics by special interests for special interests against We The People.

It's because there are folks like mtn_hound who scream "YOU"RE STUPID" for stating the obvious (as seen on a similar thread on Lindsey). Some people will never accept the truth, even when it stares them in the face. Especially if it counters their idea of a Utopian Democrat Nation. Go figure.

Hyper-partisan politics sure enough is toxic and counter-productive. I'd sure be writing to these State Senators if they were my representative. Plus, in theory, we're on the same team (I align with a lot of what the D stands for and currently hardly anything of what the R stands for -and even more so since the inception of trumpism-, although I would not trade my political independence for anything).

Curious of what's the impact of a letter to a State Senator from someone who is NOT a resident of that state (me)... does their aide put it straight to the trash folder without reading it?

Anyway, maybe if the letters argue about the impact of forcing private landowners to close their land for recreation might have on the DEI of the outdoors recreation community, maybe they will get responsive. Food for thought. After all, the Decalibron is one of the most accessible 14er routes, perfectly appropriate for a 1st 14er, and one of the state's most popular hike.

[Scott P]

What's the deal with Kit Carson (and Challenger) these days?

I believe it was bought out and is now all public. I remember reading that somewhere (maybe here).

[HikesInGeologicTime]

Curious of what's the impact of a letter to a State Senator from someone who is NOT a resident of that state (me)... does their aide put it straight to the trash folder without reading it?

Pretty much, yes. But don’t worry, they also mark it as “Read” and move onto more important things like the latest Reddit drama after getting emails from residents as well.

But to reiterate an idea I raised earlier in the thread that might actually get the attention of the senators and others who might be able to put pressure on them: Denver is currently in the thick of a general city election. I’m not entirely sure who or what is on the ballot, as I’m no longer there full time (which doesn’t prevent me from getting a bunch of aggravating campaign texts, but that’s neither here nor there), but there’s a possibility that one or more if the senators in question will be speaking at various events to stump for their pet issues…which would be a great opportunity for someone who is in/near Denver on a more regular basis and has the availability to ask them in front of an audience about why they rejected the bill, why they want to close off access to previously accessible terrain by refusing to move the bill forward, etc.

Of course they could (and probably would) deflect, but it might get the attention of some local journalists and/or the voters who care enough to take part in a citywide election, who are also the voters I’d suspect are most likely to care about re-electing (or not) those state senators.

[greenonion]

Curious of what's the impact of a letter to a State Senator from someone who is NOT a resident of that state (me)... does their aide put it straight to the trash folder without reading it?

Pretty much, yes. But don’t worry, they also mark it as “Read” and move onto more important things like the latest Reddit drama after getting emails from residents as well.

But to reiterate an idea I raised earlier in the thread that might actually get the attention of the senators and others who might be able to put pressure on them: Denver is currently in the thick of a general city election. I’m not entirely sure who or what is on the ballot, as I’m no longer there full time (which doesn’t prevent me from getting a bunch of aggravating campaign texts, but that’s neither here nor there), but there’s a possibility that one or more if the senators in question will be speaking at various events to stump for their pet issues…which would be a great opportunity for someone who is in/near Denver on a more regular basis and has the availability to ask them in front of an audience about why they rejected the bill, why they want to close off access to previously accessible terrain by refusing to move the bill forward, etc.

Of course they could (and probably would) deflect, but it might get the attention of some local journalists and/or the voters who care enough to take part in a citywide election, who are also the voters I’d suspect are most likely to care about re-electing (or not) those state senators.

GREAT idea.