Missouri standard - arguable class 3?

[Jeff_Duda_IA319]

Sorry if this has been debated elsewhere on this forum. This is my first post here and I took some time to search specifically for the discussion of the final approach on the standard route to Missouri's summit, but I didn't specifically see the following aspect discussed.

I summited Missouri Mountain (and later, Mt. Belford) this past Wednesday (the 9th) via Missouri Gulch. These represented my 18th and 19th fourteeners (5th and 6th Sawatchers). I have done Longs Peak, so I am familiar with a "nominal" class 3 hike. So that was the context I had as I began the southeastward approach along the northwest ridge route. That crux, a few hundred feet from the summit, had me a bit concerned. I would argue that that move could be considered class 3 given the danger level associated with a slip - the "trail" there is just patted down dirt along a moderately-steep slope with nothing to stop you from sliding/rolling a few hundred feet down from there. I would imagine such a fall would be almost certain to cause injury, and maybe upwards of 50% probability of ultimately being fatal (considering the difficulty with trying to get back up that slope and back to the trail).

I am somewhat familiar with the class rating system, but is "danger" level factored into the system in any explicit way? I can see the trail itself being in the class 2 range, but with that kind of slipping hazard and the subsequent exposure/fall, could that area be argued to be class 3?

FWIW, on the ascent I actually swung over the small rock buttress along the very spine of the ridge (i.e., above that move) and ended up losing my waist-mounted pedometer while crossing the rock. I may very well have turned that into a class 3 move myself. On the descent I went down below and around since it is easier for me to ascend steep scree like that than descend it. I slipped on my ass several times coming back down from the saddle, as well as coming down from Belford. Seemed more hazardous than the typical class 1 descent there.

[LarryM]

No.

First of all, you are correct that the issue on the crux is exposure. The actual climbing is totally class 2. Even were the exposure extreme, that wouldn't make it class 3. But for me, anyway (everyone is different) it wasn't that big a deal. I am a total wimp with exposure, and was somewhat apprehensive from the description when I did it last year. But the somewhat exposed crux was fine. The description makes it sound worse than it is (again, in my opinion). On the descent I was past the difficult section before I even realized it.

Edit - I would add - as I recall, it was last summer - the "descent" was actually easier, as the crux is a slight down climb on the way up before you start heading back up, and the worst part is the short down climb. So you're actually ascending through the difficulty on the "descent." Or at least that's how I remember it. Final edit - after I wrote this I looked at the route description again. Yeah, my memory was correct. The crux is a down climb on the ascent, so easier on the descent. Honestly there is probably about a 10 foot section that is difficult. And looking at the pictures on the route guide, it matches my memory in another respect: yes, it's exposed, but it's not a sheer drop.

Edit 2 - Sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick about this, and obviously everyone reacts differently to it. It does sound like maybe you made it harder than is should have been by trying to avoid the crux in both directions. I know what you mean - you totally can avoid it by going above (class 3) or below (loose class 2) the crux, but IMO the trail is where is is for a reason, and it's the easiest route.

[zootloopz]

I also remember not having a fun time here -- if anything a "difficult class 2" label could be warranted.

[mtree]

I think you have to also consider the footwear you're using. Microspikes make it a class 1 hike. Hiking boots a class 2. You're correct in that your ballet flats make it a class 3. If you were to wear jester shoes it would be class 4. I think this site assumes you're wearing hiking boots or similar so adjust accordingly. Its the same as tires on cars. Not like its rocket science.

[LarryM]

I think you have to also consider the footwear you're using. Microspikes make it a class 1 hike. Hiking boots a class 2. You're correct in that your ballet flats make it a class 3. If you were to wear jester shoes it would be class 4. I think this site assumes you're wearing hiking boots or similar so adjust accordingly. Its the same as tires on cars. Not like its rocket science.

Eh, running shoes (with decent tread) were fine.

[LarryM]

Now the crux (summit block) on Harvard, on the other hand, really IS arguably class 3. Or at least it was for me (I guess I didn't find the class 2 option that Bill refers to in the description). Fight me.

In fairness, it's super solid rock without huge exposure.

[IntrepidXJ]

But for me, anyway (everyone is different) it wasn't that big a deal. I am a total wimp with exposure, and was somewhat apprehensive from the description when I did it last year. But the somewhat exposed crux was fine. The description makes it sound worse than it is (again, in my opinion). On the descent I was past the difficult section before I even realized it.

That spot turned me back a couple of years ago.

[LarryM]

But for me, anyway (everyone is different) it wasn't that big a deal. I am a total wimp with exposure, and was somewhat apprehensive from the description when I did it last year. But the somewhat exposed crux was fine. The description makes it sound worse than it is (again, in my opinion). On the descent I was past the difficult section before I even realized it.

That spot turned me back a couple of years ago.

As I said, everyone is different. Just relating my experience. And I do understand how it can affect some people - it IS exposed, and it IS a little loose (as I recall, loose dirt rather than loose rock), and narrow. Though it's also a pretty short section.

Ironically, and counterintuitively, my fear of exposure may have helped me a bit in this case. I got so worked up by the description that, when I actually got to the crux, I was like, oh, this isn't THAT bad. But maybe I was just having a good day.

[rijaca]

Missouri class 2
Harvard class 2

[LarryM]

Missouri class 2
Harvard class 2

I'm sure that, if I wasn't such a crappy route finder, Harvard would have been class 2 for me. But I really do think that I made it class 3 through poor route selection.

Mind you, it was EASY class 3.

(And obviously we're talking only about the summit block. Most of the standard route is class one, and most of the rest easy class 2.)

[tortilla]

You have to put a quarter in the slot for the marmot to belay you, this keeps it 2+

[14ercooper]

Now the crux (summit block) on Harvard, on the other hand, really IS arguably class 3. Or at least it was for me (I guess I didn't find the class 2 option that Bill refers to in the description). Fight me.

In fairness, it's super solid rock without huge exposure.

I will admit, it took me several trips up Harvard before I actually found the class 2 option - it definitely isn't entirely clear where it is and I've seen a lot of people unable to find it across all my trips up to the summit. Could maybe do with a few more pictures, in my opinion.