14er trip for 800' dwellers

[Istoodupthere]

I’m sure there are unknown variables that affect how we feel in the mountains. Sometimes on my first climb I feel better than other first days. Starting in late-May I’ll make a trip west every 2 or 3 weeks until late-August. I always feel better in August than I did in May. Of course better conditioning has something to do with it but I’d also like to believe it has something to do with the amount of time I’ve spent at high altitude by the end of summer. Maybe I’m wrong. I’d love to see a study on that kind of thing. Weather permitting I’ll be back in 2 weeks and then again in early November like I am almost every year. A few years ago I did little Bear this time of year and felt great. Last year in early Nov I felt so sluggish when I did E Buffalo that I embarrassingly skipped W Buffalo. Regardless I still feel that sleeping at altitude helps.

[Fast Jimm]

It sounds like Istoodupthere and I have a similar profile of low altitude to high. I don't think there is any question that sleeping at altitude helps, but that 10400 in Leadville or even 9600 in Breck is less optimal than 7k in Salida or 8k in Buena Vista. Sleeping at 7-9k feet definitely sets a floor and your body is acclimating to that altitude whether you're sleeping, walking or running. I don't think 10400 or anything close to 10k is an ideal daily 'retreat' altitude, but you're acclimating nonetheless. The main paradigm here is: Gradual the first day or two with intelligent progression based on your response.

Attitude, fitness, BMI, age- all make a big difference. Not everyone is a fit, lean person in their mid-thirties who dabbles in distance events or various HIIT cardio although I was sort of like this at 39 when I started hiking in Colorado and felt very strong and pretty quickly! We can't control age and its significant effects, but the rest of those variables are manageable.

How early one starts is often understated in importance. If you're at a trailhead at 3-4 AM and hiking with a headlamp in 37 degrees, it's vastly less impactful than toiling in the sun at 60 degrees! I struggle getting up early and getting moving so I often end with the 12:00 PM summit goal as sort of a race against time, so that does affect my hydration needs. It's also important to layer up and down- especially down- as you get working harder to help with cooling.

I want to emphasize one more time how important heavy, even over-hydration is. I've seen blanket recommendations of two liters of water on a 14er climb! That's nuts, to put it mildly, especially since there is a lot of variability between some of the easier hikes with high trailheads vs, say, Longs Peak. Your body is acclimating to high altitudes, sweating with heavy exertion and then a lot of us are asking it to digest 1000 calories of fiber, carbs and protein during the day. This is not spelled with two liters of water- more like five for a 180-pound person doing a 3.5k to 5k day with 8-15 miles.

The best summary of all the preparation angles that I've encountered, including everything we've discussed, is in the James Dziezynski book "Best summit hikes in Colorado". I strongly recommend anyone going there read the first several chapters and, of course, the routes are priceless.

[Trotter]

You're not going to acclimate so doesn't really matter where you sleep as long as you get GOOD sleep.

You post this "advice" in every thread and again I have to point out that NO reputable source agrees with this statement. It is, by every metric, false.

Acclimatization happens through a series of processes, both fast (hours to days) and slow (weeks). Staging any trip such that you move upwards as slowly as your itinerary will allow will reduce your risks of altitude sickness and allow those processes to happen more completely.

Here's a series of recommendations from the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/yellow-book/hcp/env ... lness.html

+1

I've explained and shown him several times while hes wrong, and he continues to act like acclimatization is only the 3 month full process and that nothing happens until 3 months in.

Heres an actual study from the US military.

https://usariem.health.mil/assets/docs/ ... nguide.pdf

[cedica]

I don't think there is any question that sleeping at altitude helps, but that 10400 in Leadville or even 9600 in Breck is less optimal than 7k in Salida or 8k in Buena Vista. Sleeping at 7-9k feet definitely sets a floor and your body is acclimating to that altitude whether you're sleeping, walking or running. I don't think 10400 or anything close to 10k is an ideal daily 'retreat' altitude, but you're acclimating nonetheless. The main paradigm here is: Gradual the first day or two with intelligent progression based on your response.

Yes, thank you. My personal list, based on the first CO night sleep quality coming from Atlantic level, YMMV:
- Leadville 10.2k - too high, almost no sleep at all
- Silverton 9.3k - not completely bad, but not optimal either
- Buena Vista 8k - perfect
- Salida 7.1k or Durango 6.5k - maybe could've gone higher
- Montrose 5.8k - wasting time, definitely should go higher

[ECF55]

Yes, thank you. My personal list, based on the first CO night sleep quality coming from Atlantic level, YMMV:
- Leadville 10.2k - too high, almost no sleep at all
- Silverton 9.3k - not completely bad, but not optimal either
- Buena Vista 8k - perfect
- Salida 7.1k or Durango 6.5k - maybe could've gone higher
- Montrose 5.8k - wasting time, definitely should go higher

Ha, thanks for this. I have had similar experiences. Early trip overnights at Telluride Mountain Village and Breckinridge resulted in poor sleep with lots of wake-ups, while BV stays (and lower elevation spots) were fine.

[Fast Jimm]

I don't think there is any question that sleeping at altitude helps, but that 10400 in Leadville or even 9600 in Breck is less optimal than 7k in Salida or 8k in Buena Vista. Sleeping at 7-9k feet definitely sets a floor and your body is acclimating to that altitude whether you're sleeping, walking or running. I don't think 10400 or anything close to 10k is an ideal daily 'retreat' altitude, but you're acclimating nonetheless. The main paradigm here is: Gradual the first day or two with intelligent progression based on your response.

Yes, thank you. My personal list, based on the first CO night sleep quality coming from Atlantic level, YMMV:
- Leadville 10.2k - too high, almost no sleep at all
- Silverton 9.3k - not completely bad, but not optimal either
- Buena Vista 8k - perfect
- Salida 7.1k or Durango 6.5k - maybe could've gone higher
- Montrose 5.8k - wasting time, definitely should go higher

I think this is pretty much spot on and a good working estimate for most people trying to acclimate from lower altitudes. The time management is especially critical since it's hard to budget a full week for a Colorado trip although if one can and sleeps moderately high as we've been discussing, those last several days will feel quite strong in my experience.

[cedica]

^ Thanks again. Just wanted to clarify that I didn't mean to say anything bad about Montrose. It's a beautiful and welcoming Western Slope town inhabited by many famous mountaineers, with great shops and restaurants (though I believe that Thai food offering still has a room for improvement). My point was that it didn't work for me in particular altitude wise - it felt almost like being in Atlantic City, but without legalized gambling.

[rmcpherson]

I want to emphasize one more time how important heavy, even over-hydration is. I've seen blanket recommendations of two liters of water on a 14er climb! That's nuts, to put it mildly, especially since there is a lot of variability between some of the easier hikes with high trailheads vs, say, Longs Peak. Your body is acclimating to high altitudes, sweating with heavy exertion and then a lot of us are asking it to digest 1000 calories of fiber, carbs and protein during the day. This is not spelled with two liters of water- more like five for a 180-pound person doing a 3.5k to 5k day with 8-15 miles.

The military study linked mentions dehydration as a contributor to AMS:

"Dehydration significantly impairs physical performance and may increase
susceptibility to AMS. The physical performance decrements produced by dehydration
are most likely in addition to the impairments produced by hypoxia. Dehydration does
increase the severity of hypoxic symptoms, such as lightheadedness and dizziness.
Water requirements may be increased at high altitudes due to the increased loss of
water through breathing and the diuresis produced by hypoxia and/or acetazolamide."

Still, I suspect that exact water amounts needed to prevent dehydration vary significantly even for the unacclimatized. I have never brought anything close to 5L of water (that's 5 kg!) on even big linkup days with multiple summits and 2000m+ of elevation gain. These days I usually bring a max of 2L and a water filter. On most climbs in Colorado there are streams or lakes where water can be quickly replenished with a 3oz high-flow water filter. Don't carry more water than necessary. It's freaking heavy.

[Istoodupthere]

Yes 5 liters is a lot and a lot of weight. I bring 2 liters in my bladder. For the longer days I’ll bring another liter in a water bottle and bring a packet of liquid IV with me and some purifying tablets if needed. I’ve only gone through all of my water once, on the way back from Chicago Basin on the purgatory trail.

[Javfa1958]

I don't think there is any question that sleeping at altitude helps, but that 10400 in Leadville or even 9600 in Breck is less optimal than 7k in Salida or 8k in Buena Vista. Sleeping at 7-9k feet definitely sets a floor and your body is acclimating to that altitude whether you're sleeping, walking or running. I don't think 10400 or anything close to 10k is an ideal daily 'retreat' altitude, but you're acclimating nonetheless. The main paradigm here is: Gradual the first day or two with intelligent progression based on your response.

Yes, thank you. My personal list, based on the first CO night sleep quality coming from Atlantic level, YMMV:
- Leadville 10.2k - too high, almost no sleep at all
- Silverton 9.3k - not completely bad, but not optimal either
- Buena Vista 8k - perfect
- Salida 7.1k or Durango 6.5k - maybe could've gone higher
- Montrose 5.8k - wasting time, definitely should go higher

I am also a lowlander from the East. When coming to Colorado I usual get an evening flight into Denver and stay the night. The next day I take a slow car ride to either Fairplay or Leadville and spend the night there. My Fourteener ascents start the next day and I try to get 5 peaks in during the nine days I am in the State. This has been successful five times now but as I need to move to Westward to achieve other mountains, my plan has to change.

[Javfa1958]

I don't think there is any question that sleeping at altitude helps, but that 10400 in Leadville or even 9600 in Breck is less optimal than 7k in Salida or 8k in Buena Vista. Sleeping at 7-9k feet definitely sets a floor and your body is acclimating to that altitude whether you're sleeping, walking or running. I don't think 10400 or anything close to 10k is an ideal daily 'retreat' altitude, but you're acclimating nonetheless. The main paradigm here is: Gradual the first day or two with intelligent progression based on your response.

Yes, thank you. My personal list, based on the first CO night sleep quality coming from Atlantic level, YMMV:
- Leadville 10.2k - too high, almost no sleep at all
- Silverton 9.3k - not completely bad, but not optimal either
- Buena Vista 8k - perfect
- Salida 7.1k or Durango 6.5k - maybe could've gone higher
- Montrose 5.8k - wasting time, definitely should go higher

I am also a lowlander from the East. When coming to Colorado I usual get an evening flight into Denver and stay the night. The next day I take a slow car ride to either Fairplay or Leadville and spend the night there. My Fourteener ascents start the next day and I try to get 5 peaks in during the nine days I am in the State. This has been successful five times now but as I need to move Westward to achieve other mountains, my plan has to change.

[Fast Jimm]

Yes 5 liters is a lot and a lot of weight. I bring 2 liters in my bladder. For the longer days I’ll bring another liter in a water bottle and bring a packet of liquid IV with me and some purifying tablets if needed. I’ve only gone through all of my water once, on the way back from Chicago Basin on the purgatory trail.

I seem to need more, no doubt. I'm about 180 and tend to hike later in the day than would be optimal, rarely making it to the trailhead early enough to use a headlamp. I recently did Peak One in Frisco which is just 8 miles round trip (from the parking area) and only brought 3 liters of water. I finished the water at the top and was notably dehydrated on the way down. Of course, this was a sweaty grind, probably 60-75 degrees and lots of sun exposure but I try to remember what we tell anyone who works and sweats hard in the sun about water consumption- go big and regular. I also tend to run at near maximum sustainable exertion while going up for whatever reason so that may also be a factor.

Great points though. 5 liters of water is heavy, but not overly burdensome at 11 pounds (and decreasing rapidly as it's consumed). It's become my standard for days like Longs, Yale's East Ridge, Holy cross or Belford/Oxford- each of which are a mile vertical. I'm also always coming from lower altitudes and not always able to be in Colorado for more than 3-4 days, so adjusting to altitude is a constant factor. I have no doubt that many hikers under hydrate and often tend to overdress, so they're also sweating and it's wicking off quickly in the dry air.